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etky









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 7:42 am
amother wrote:
And this is what I came across as well, hence the question. So.... with that bit of history, has the flag come to mean something purely nationalistic or is it still viewed as a religious symbol and this would be problematic halachically...


I don't know. But - the question is not unique to the Union Jack, since the flags of many, many countries bear the cross in one or another fashion.
Not to mention the symbols of Islam and other religions - some blatantly pagan - that appear on the flags of many other countries.
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amother




Bisque


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 8:34 am
Correct. But whose even thinking of referencing Islam 馃榾 I'm planning on doing s British theme for Purim and I really need to know if incorporating the flag could be problematic
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invisiblecircus









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 8:35 am
etky wrote:
Doesn't help that the head of state is also the head of the national church....


Doesn't help what? Since there is no separation of church and state it only follows that the same person is head of both.

Incidently, Anglicanism does not celebrate/ worship saints in the same way that catholicism does.

The flag is purely nationalistic.
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etky









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 8:47 am
invisiblecircus wrote:
Doesn't help what? Since there is no separation of church and state it only follows that the same person is head of both.

Incidently, Anglicanism does not celebrate/ worship saints in the same way that catholicism does.

The flag is purely nationalistic.


Meaning - of course in a country where the head of state is also the head of the church there can be no official separation of church and state.
BTW it does not 'only follow that the same person is head of both'. That is called Caeseropapism.
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etky









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 8:51 am
amother wrote:
Correct. But whose even thinking of referencing Islam 馃榾 I'm planning on doing s British theme for Purim and I really need to know if incorporating the flag could be problematic


I think you should AYLOR.
There will probably be different opinions as to if it is appropriate or not.
Personally, the cross jumps out at me whenever I see a flag that incorporates one.
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imasoftov









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 9:18 am
DrMom wrote:
And let's not forget that Hebrew months are named after Babylonian pagan gods. Why do we still use those?

Let's clean up our own house first.

The Hebrew word for "husband" is the name of a Canaanite god, but I've already posted a time or three Ben Gurion's preference to replace "baal" with "ish", in accordance with Hoshea 2:19: 讜址讛植住执专止转执讬 讗侄转 砖职讈诪讜止转 讛址讘职旨注指诇执讬诐 诪执驻执旨讬讛指 讜职诇止讗 讬执讝指旨讻职专讜旨 注讜止讚 讘执旨砖职讈诪指诐
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imasoftov









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 9:20 am
etky wrote:
I think you should AYLOR.
There will probably be different opinions as to if it is appropriate or not.
Personally, the cross jumps out at me whenever I see a flag that incorporates one.

Or maybe the Chief Rabbi of the UK (and Commonwealth), contact info here
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amother




Bisque


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 10:41 am
imasoftov wrote:
Or maybe the Chief Rabbi of the UK (and Commonwealth), contact info here

Are you being sarcastic?
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Rubber Ducky









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 10:50 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
As far as I know, no one has ever committed avoda zora by adding one plus one.

Please correct me if you know of any cases. (Sources, natch.)


Xians come close to a-z with one plus two! Wink
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amother




Jade


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 11:39 pm
This a very intelligent question.
The original English flag was a red cross against a white background (the cross of Saint George) introduced in 1194 by Richard 1 of England.

In 1603 England united with Scotland, and King JAmes 5 or 6 of Scotland became King James the first of England, unifying both territories. The cross of St. Andrew was added as a background creating the first Union flag of Great Britian.

The flag , called UNION JACK was named after king James which is in Latin Jacobus, in Hebrew JAcob.

In 1801, the addition of the cross of St. Patrick was sandwiched between the cross of St. George and St. Andrew. (In other words, the cross of St. Patrick was sandwiched between the cross of England and Scotland) This created the current UNION flag of Great Britian.

We Jews have short term memory. Today the Imams in the mosques preach hatred and blood. Just a short while ago, the cross was symbolic of the Christian priests
preaching hatred and blood against us.
It is ok if we remember and give meaning to our past tribulations.
Our grandparents shuddered at the site of the cross.
It evoked memories of Jewish children kidnapped in convents. Pogroms, burning at the stake. blood libels. Cantonist decrees, expulsions, FORCED BAPTISM. and the ongoing blame of the Christians for killing of their SVr.
If someone puts meaning it is their right to do so. To mock and disparage them for doing so
can be unintelligent and disrespectful.
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etky









  


Post  Tue, Feb 13 2018, 12:11 am
amother wrote:
This a very intelligent question.
The original English flag was a red cross against a white background (the cross of Saint George) introduced in 1194 by Richard 1 of England.

In 1603 England united with Scotland, and King JAmes 5 or 6 of Scotland became King James the first of England, unifying both territories. The cross of St. Andrew was added as a background creating the first Union flag of Great Britian.

The flag , called UNION JACK was named after king James which is in Latin Jacobus, in Hebrew JAcob.

In 1801, the addition of the cross of St. Patrick was sandwiched between the cross of St. George and St. Andrew. (In other words, the cross of St. Patrick was sandwiched between the cross of England and Scotland) This created the current UNION flag of Great Britian.

We Jews have short term memory. Today the Imams in the mosques preach hatred and blood. Just a short while ago, the cross was symbolic of the Christian priests
preaching hatred and blood against us.
It is ok if we remember and give meaning to our past tribulations.
Our grandparents shuddered at the site of the cross.
It evoked memories of Jewish children kidnapped in convents. Pogroms, burning at the stake. blood libels. Cantonist decrees, expulsions, FORCED BAPTISM. and the ongoing blame of the Christians for killing of their SVr.
If someone puts meaning it is their right to do so. To mock and disparage them for doing so
can be unintelligent and disrespectful.


Not to mention the Crusades, for which the cross of St. George was a well-recognized symbol.
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imasoftov









  


Post  Tue, Feb 13 2018, 4:25 am
amother wrote:
Are you being sarcastic?

How to Tell if Someone Is Being Sarcastic
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Raisin









  


Post  Tue, Feb 13 2018, 10:39 am
I'm British and definitely aware that there are crosses on the flag, as there are on many national flags. Not sure if I would avoid using the flag for something like MM.

Nowadays there is no religious significance at all. Britain has long had religious freedom. The UK government pays for frum Jewish schools as well as xtian ones. I believe Charles wants to be knows as "defender of Faiths", rather then the faith.

If you want to avoid using the flag, lots of other things you can use. eg the keep calm and carry on concept. Very british and lots of fun. http://www.keepcalmandcarryon.com/
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FranticFrummie









  


Post  Tue, Feb 13 2018, 10:46 am
etky wrote:
Caeseropapism.


I learned a new word today, and an awesome one at that!

Now, how do I use it in a sentence at least three times?

Study Nerd I'm a word nerd, and proud of it. Very Happy
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FranticFrummie









  


Post  Wed, Feb 14 2018, 10:15 am
Regarding non Jewish holidays and symbols, I just found this article about Valentine's Day:

https://www.myjewishlearning.c.....890-100549
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