Why don’t (most) frum people have dogs/pets?

watergirl

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 6:38 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

There are a lot of halachos regarding animals which makes owning a pet complicated, but of course not impossible.

You have to feed your pet before you eat, your pet is muktzah on Shabbos, and pet food can be problematic. Anyways, I have a phobia of anything with fur. Only one grandparent went through the Holocaust, so I don't think it's that.

I actually asked a dayan for the RCA about this. He has a dog himself. The dog is not mukza for its own family. So I can pet my dog on shabbos, and its cruel not to. Not mukza for its family.
Pet food - you cant feed your dog basar v cholov. Its never been easier than it is now. Most of the dog foods are chicken and rice, meat and rice, etc. There are TONS of acceptsble options. On pesach, the CRC has a list a mile long of acceptable dog foods and cat foods. Cant feed grain. Great! In the last 25 years, vets have compelled the dog food industry to make grain free dog food because its healthier for them. Kitnios is fine for them for ashkinazim - my dog eats Rachel Ray grain free dog food year round.
The halacha about feeding your animal before you feed yourself is one of my favorite parts to owning a dog actually. It teaches care, concern for living creatures, kindness, and responsibility.
Did you know that on Pesach, a dog owner is supposed to give the dog BETTER food than year round? Yup! To honor them because when we left mitzrayim in the middle of the night, they didnt bark. They were quiet. Those dogs were massive (google “pharoah hound”) and guard dogs who were trained to bark. My dog loves pesach. She gets plenty of table scraps, and the chinuch for my kids is live in action!

Last edited by watergirl on Wed, Feb 14 2018, 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total

weasley

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 7:00 am

I get so upset about this.

Firstly I beg of all parents who don't like dogs not to portray any fear to your kids - I've litrally seen countless of times kids running into the road right in front of cars because a dog ON A LEASH was coming up the sidewalk.

My older brother had a dog whilst living in our house (my family are huge animal lovers) and the disgusting comments we got from the community is so upsetting. (They were all very into coming to pet our chickens and rabbits when we had those but for a dog everything changes) There is NOTHING wrong with having a dog. (my mum actually asked our rav after ppl were saying stuff 'from chazal' and he said it's fine) The unconditional love they give can litrally heal intense emotional pain and upheaval like nothing else can.

In the community my parents live (yeshivish) it is very unaccepted so much so that my neighbor a teenage boy who was struggling in yidishkeit was threatened by the school that if he'd continue walking our dog within the community he'd be thrown out the school.

It makes my blood boil. But more than angry it makes me sad. SO many people could gain so much by having a dog and I know so many ppl who have admitted to my parents that they wish they could have a dog but it's not worth it for them to become 'that family' in the community.

I also think that if it would be more accepted in the community there would be so much less fear.

And for what it's worth both my grandparents are holocaust survivors.

amother

Crimson

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 7:02 am

amother wrote:

Cats take so little work. I have one, she always has dry food, I scoop the box once a day. Three minutes, max. My son loves her, in return she sleeps on his head.

How old is your cat? As they age they do require more vet visits and sometimes more medications. For sure less work than a dog but "so little work" is not true for my senior kitties!!!!

Raisin

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 7:21 am

enneamom wrote:

I think the tamei animal reason is specific to the Lubavitch community. Both as a child and an adult, I've known many families with smaller pets like birds, hamsters, rabbits, turtles, etc. Dogs and cats are more of a rarity, but not unheard of.

We love animals in our family. We stalk and ask to pet "doggies" on the street, that type. LOL

Kids are constantly begging to get a pet. But frankly, we don't have the time, space or money for one.

I think that's the crux of the issue: in the non-Jewish world, with most families having 0 to 1.5 kids, it's so much easier to have a pet. The companionship a pet brings is also much more needed. Pets often take on the role of child or sibling substitute. In the frum world, even families that don't have the infamous animal phobia and do actually appreciate animals simply don't find it needed or practical to have a pet.

Lubavitchers won't have stuffed non kosher animals. They will have non kosher animals for educational reasons or other reasons. eg dogs can be great with special needs kids, or cats to catch mice.

My very very lubavitch parents and siblings had or have rabbits, various birds, hamsters, cats etc.

Dogs are very time consuming and expensive to care for.

amother

Peach

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 7:22 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

For everyone posting these nauseatingly self-righteous posts how you put the energy and effort into children, husb, family blah blah ..

I have 2 questions.

1) How come in Baltimore and places like that I have seen plenty of people with busy lives and large families , quite often with less money and resources than other frum communities, have dogs and cats.

2) If its simply a matter of time and energy, why is there such animosity towards dogs and cats in Lakewood. One lady told me there was cats in her yard that were terrorizing her. You would think it was a tiger, they were just adorable kittens..

why is my comment self righteous ? I’m just barely managing to deal with and manage my life without dogs, I’d have to be insane to add a dog to the mix. What’s self righteous about that? It’s true! And I live in Cleveland , lots of people have dogs, we are not scared of them at all, I actually see my neighbors take them out all the time, and I’m kind of happy I don’t have to do that (but yes I wake kids in middle of the night to take them to the bathroom.... so maybe if I didn’t have that kind of life the dog life would be ok for me? I don’t know, but why do you take this so personally? Also friends of ours had a dog and his tail almost got severed when something fell on it. The expense of fixing it was too much and they realized the financial part (vaccines, etc) is not something they can handle.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 7:26 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

A. I live out of town. I’m not sure what Baltimore has to do with anything. I apologize that my prioritizing is nauseating for you, but I don’t have the cheishek to deal with any more creatures.

B. My kids love animals. I just don’t want to take care of them. I don’t really like cats or dogs in my yard though. I have no idea where they’ve been, and my neighbor’s dogs play in my garbage nightly to the point that my other neighbors complained about my messiness.

amother

Blue

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 7:37 am

Re: Baltimore and pets - I’ll say this - what I love about Baltimore is that its a “live and let live” city. We all do whats good for us and our own thing and we dont bend to “whats done” or the norm. There is just less shtus here. Sure, there are those who want to do “whats done”, but I think they’d have a hard time defining it. Want a dog? Zei gezunt. Sure, your neighbor’s kids may be scared but thats their issue to get over, as long as you respect their fear and keep the dog away. You wont be looked down as less frum for having one.

And my boy’s school has classroom pets that take turns coming home with the boys. Baltimore just has its way.

Raisin

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 7:38 am

My husband and kids would love to get a dog. Not me. I don't really get why people love pets so much. Its like pickles. I know other people like them, I just don't. I'm not scared of them, and I think some are cute. I pretend to my kids I like them more then I do. And as I said, I grew up with lots of different pets.

My main issue with a dog is who would take care of it if we went away. Kennels are expensive. Its not always easy to find a friend to care for them. And people do spend lots of money on expensive vet treatment for pets. I wouldn't but it would feel very heartless.

We have fostered dogs in the past and would probably do it again in the future. Its a short term commitment.

amother

Red

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 7:59 am

I have no problem with people owning pets.

My problem is with owners that -
Leave the dog's poop lying around everywhere.
Don't understand that we all don't think your dog is as cute as you think it is.
Don't understand that we all don't know that your dog is as harmless as you think it is.
Think the world needs therapy to achieve the goal of loving dogs.

Keep your dog on a leash!
Near others, keep your dog on a tight leash!
We don't want your dog sniffing us, touching us, licking us, climbing on us...
Thanks!

33055

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 8:04 am

moonstone wrote:

Why is that a question for a rabbi???

I love our dog, she's a real sweetheart. There's something about petting her that's very calming- and she loves it, too.

Dogs are very rare in my neighborhood, and people have an extreme phobia of them. One very modern family nearby has a dog and was told not to walk it on the block. I have heard several people say that cats suck out Torah learning and to stay away from them. DC really wanted a dog in this atmosphere.

DH wouldn't get a dog because of halacha and the neighbors. I grew up with dogs and my parents had one when DC was a small child. I didn't really want a dog because I would be responsible for the walking, the hair, the mess and the smell. I would feel bad leaving the dog alone all day, but I want to make my kids happy, so I would have gotten one. DH and I were seeing this differently, and SB is more important than a dog. DH and I agreed to ask our Rabbi. We let DC go and make his own appeal.

watergirl

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 8:07 am

Squishy wrote:

Ooc, who told the family not to walk their dog?

moonstone

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 9:03 am

Squishy wrote:

What??? From where, pray tell??

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 9:29 am

My husband and one son keep on saying they would love a dog. In my house my rule is if it is alive it's kids. I don't have time to deal with a pet . As a working mother part of the sandwich generation I barely have time to breathe.
I told my son if his wife wants one he can have one. For now he occasionally goes to the pet shelter to walk dogs.

dancingqueen

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 9:43 am

Bizzydizzymommy wrote:

Also, many holocaust survivors and their descendants , have an extreme fear of dogs since the Nazis let their dogs loose to attack the Jews.
.

This is the real reason, and it’s not just Nazis, also the Cossacks etc. A large percent on Jewish people are afraid of animals.

That said in my MO community it’s not uncommon to have a dog.

33055

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 10:07 am

watergirl wrote:

Ooc, who told the family not to walk their dog?

One of the families on the block because of the extreme fear of dogs.

Actually, I am glad because they were not cleaning up after their animals, and there are no sidewalks with young kids in playing in the street. Feces do not belong in that mix.

watergirl

Wed, Feb 14 2018, 10:17 am

Squishy wrote:

And the family listened? I wouldn't have. Unless there is an HOA, its my street also. If there are kids who are scared, I keep my dog right at my ankle and on a tight, locked leashe until I pass and put distance in between. But I have the right to walk my dog. Just be considerate. Although they need to pick up after their dog, I agree there. Fwiw, If I’m walking my dog and someone is walking towards me, I always move to the street with the dog and give them the right of way on the sidewalk - thats common curtesy. But in your story, the dog was pooping on the street where kids play? Thats bizarre. Dogs really dont like to go on the street and prefer grass.

Also fwiw, I rented a house for a year and the other dog owners and I were always accused of not picking up after our dogs. Finally a few kind hearted neighbors who had security cameras produced footage of cats and raccoons coming at night. I had been telling everyone that the poop clearly did not look like dog poop but not no one believed me until then.