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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
shiaeisen
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 Tue, Feb 13 2018, 7:14 pm
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I believe high school hours are crazy and leave no time for family, leisure, anything! I know many parents admit they don’t want their kids home (which gets me so angry) but for those of us who see our high school age kids struggling with studying, tests, bechinas, regents, etc., and believe they need some time off (aside from Yom Tov and Shabbos), there’s no way to fight the system....
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thunderstorm
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 7:23 pm
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As a mother of only boys I say "yes"... I honestly don't know how they do it. They are out of the house at 6:45 am. Get home at 6:30 PM and go back out at 7:30 until 10:00!!!! And my boys have school on Sundays and Motzai Shabbos too!
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amother
Sienna
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 8:04 pm
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I thoght thia was going to be about elementary school. My 6th grader is in school longer than someone with a full time job. He leaves by 7 and is home by 615. And you're right high school is even worse.
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DVOM
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 8:09 pm
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This is something that worries me. My oldest is only in fourth grade, but I see the bus coming to pick up neighbors kids before it turns light out, and bringing them back after dark. It just doesn't seem healthy to me.
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amother
Rose
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 8:24 pm
Even adults generally work 9-5.
There should be a rule against keeping children in school more than a certain amount of hours per day.
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Maya
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 8:39 pm
Yes.
This issue was a significant one that we considered when we were making the decision to switch from a Chassidish cheder to an MO school.
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cnc
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 8:51 pm
Yes.
My young elementary kid is out from 8 AM to almost 5 PM and comes home woth homework.
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amother
Gray
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 8:52 pm
YES
It is not normal or healthy. Parents must push back somehow and stand up for the boys. These hours must go back to being optional.
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imorethanamother
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 8:54 pm
I don't know. Those boarding schools in England (Harry Potter anyone?) were all structured similarly, and I think it's healthier for them. I have the opposite problem, sending to a more modern school, and I think they have too little school. So now my son has ample time to worry about how he's the only one without a smartphone, and what movie he wants to watch next, and can he watch tv now he's done with his homework?
I admit, some very yeshivish schools have them sitting and learning gemara for close to three hours straight - that I don't get. It's a good system for kids that can hack it. It's a shame my kid can't, but that doesn't mean we should get rid of it.
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amother
Goldenrod
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 8:57 pm
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I'm the mom that calls my boys home early every other day...I cant help it! I need to see them sometimes for more than 5 minutes
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DVOM
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 8:58 pm
| imorethanamother wrote: | I don't know. Those boarding schools in England (Harry Potter anyone?) were all structured similarly, and I think it's healthier for them. I have the opposite problem, sending to a more modern school, and I think they have too little school. So now my son has ample time to worry about how he's the only one without a smartphone, and what movie he wants to watch next, and can he watch tv now he's done with his homework?
I admit, some very yeshivish schools have them sitting and learning gemara for close to three hours straight - that I don't get. It's a good system for kids that can hack it. It's a shame my kid can't, but that doesn't mean we should get rid of it. |
Interesting post. I think I'd be less worried about the number of hours the kids spend in school if I thought they were spending those hours well. The expectation in the older elementary school and high schools is that the kids will spend all those hours sitting and learning. I wouldn't mind the hours so much if some of them were spent in organized sports, arts, experiential learning (gardening? hands on science and computers? Learning to play an instrument? Volunteering in a day care or an old age home?). Its what they are doing with all those hours that worries me.
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Mommyg8
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 8:59 pm
| amother wrote: | YES
It is not normal or healthy. Parents must push back somehow and stand up for the boys. These hours must go back to being optional. |
Wow! This is really gathering speed!
Just for the record, I have k'h a large family of boys, with the majority of them high school age and above.
I'm letting you know that the workload is completely normal and healthy, and it's actually great for the boys to be learning so many hours.
Now, there are many, many yeshivos to choose from. There are those that are more intense, and those that have a lighter workload. As your son's mother, you have the option, and I dare I say, the responsibility, to choose the yeshiva that most closely correlates with your son's nature and interests.
So there are definitely choices.
Some of my boys were in very intense yeshivos. I think it was excellent (for those that could handle it), and a very good preparation for life.
What I find really hard is not high school, but beis medrash. If your son is in any kind of real yeshiva, he's not at home at all, starting at 18 years old. I miss my boys  .
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Mommyg8
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 9:00 pm
| DVOM wrote: | | Interesting post. I think I'd be less worried about the number of hours the kids spend in school if I thought they were spending those hours well. The expectation in the older elementary school and high schools is that the kids will spend all those hours sitting and learning. I wouldn't mind the hours so much if some of them were spent in organized sports, arts, experiential learning (gardening? hands on science and computers? Learning to play an instrument? Volunteering in a day care or an old age home?). Its what they are doing with all those hours that worries me. |
DVOM, we have agreed on many topics in the past, unfortunately here our paths diverge .
I love that my boys learn so many hours.
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amother
Gray
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 9:31 pm
| Mommyg8 wrote: | Wow! This is really gathering speed!
Just for the record, I have k'h a large family of boys, with the majority of them high school age and above.
I'm letting you know that the workload is completely normal and healthy, and it's actually great for the boys to be learning so many hours.
Now, there are many, many yeshivos to choose from. There are those that are more intense, and those that have a lighter workload. As your son's mother, you have the option, and I dare I say, the responsibility, to choose the yeshiva that most closely correlates with your son's nature and interests.
So there are definitely choices.
Some of my boys were in very intense yeshivos. I think it was excellent (for those that could handle it), and a very good preparation for life.
What I find really hard is not high school, but beis medrash. If your son is in any kind of real yeshiva, he's not at home at all, starting at 18 years old. I miss my boys . |
Many boys are not cut out to do 15 hour days, many adults aren't either. It used to be optional. Then those who couldn't weren't made to feel second rate and like failures. It didn't promote "fakers". The ones headed to being the next generation of greatness still had everything they needed provided as optional to pursue that course. I think the old model taught all boys a more realistic and down to earth hashkafa. The ones that shine so bright should know it is a gift they were given to be able to.
I don't equate quality of education with the amount of hours put in. I figure how much the boys become educated per hour spent a more accurate measure.
That said all the more right wing than MO yeshivas have adapted mandatory hours that are too much for what is not a minority. If you want more reasonable hours you have to compromise on hashkafic things.
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leah233
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 9:38 pm
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Much as I value and look up to the boys who are learning the long hours, there are too few options for a boy who isn't cut out for learning so many hours.
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Mommyg8
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 9:39 pm
| amother wrote: | Many boys are not cut out to do 15 hour days, many adults aren't either. It used to be optional. Then those who couldn't weren't made to feel second rate and like failures. It didn't promote "fakers". The ones headed to being the next generation of greatness still had everything they needed provided as optional to pursue that course. I think the old model taught all boys a more realistic and down to earth hashkafa. The ones that shine so bright should know it is a gift they were given to be able to.
I don't equate quality of education with the amount of hours put in. I figure how much the boys become educated per hour spent a more accurate measure.
That said all the more right wing than MO yeshivas have adapted mandatory hours that are too much for what is not a minority. If you want more reasonable hours you have to compromise on hashkafic things. |
I'm asking this seriously - there are no yeshivos that have toned down hours?
B'h all my boys are very serious learners and had no problems learning - well, it's not QUITE 15 hours a day. Most boys from my community manage to do this. But not always in 9th grade though, which is why I had always understood that there are more options.
What happened to those options? There are so many yeshivos, you can't seriously tell me that they are all this way?
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Mommyg8
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 9:40 pm
| leah233 wrote: | | Much as I value and look up to the boys who are learning the long hours, there are too few options for a boy who isn't cut out for learning so many hours. |
There aren't?
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thunderstorm
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 9:44 pm
My boys do well in yeshiva but my DH feels strongly that they need more free time , otherwise they may resent it as adults . He said they need to be children now and have some fun in life. Otherwise they will turn into children as adults and search for the fun then. He feels like that's why so many husbands are immature and childish and not taking responsibility as adults.
Even though this may go against yeshiva rules. We allow our kids to take random days off, to breathe a little. So far the schools have not complained. I've got boys in different types of yeshivas. They all have grueling schedules.
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leah233
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 9:47 pm
| Mommyg8 wrote: | | There aren't? |
No. There aren't.
Name one mesivta in all of Lakewood for a good boy who needs to end his school day by say 6:30 because he isn't capable of learning afterwards.
And that's ignoring the lack of English.
Last edited by leah233 on Tue, Feb 13 2018, 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mommyg8
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Tue, Feb 13 2018, 9:49 pm
| Bizzydizzymommy wrote: | My boys do well in yeshiva but my DH feels strongly that they need more free time , otherwise they may resent it as adults . He said they need to be children now and have some fun in life. Otherwise they will turn into children as adults and search for the fun then. He feels like that's why so many husbands are immature and childish and not taking responsibility as adults.
Even though this may go against yeshiva rules. We allow our kids to take random days off, to breathe a little. So far the schools have not complained. I've got boys in different types of yeshivas. They all have grueling schedules. |
I did the same thing. None of the yeshivos my boys were in ever complained.
I had to do this because the yeshivos that were on the level we wanted, academically, had grueling schedules. (My son was in a yeshiva that had class on Shabbos). But OTOH, this yeshiva was actually very flexible with allowing time off as needed. I think their mindset was - WE are always here, but if you need a mental health day, that's ok.
And I think it's VERY important for boys to have a hobby. Even if you are learning 15 hours a day (not really!!!) there is still some extra time, and it's important to have something fun that you like to do. There's an old saying "all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" and I think that's true.
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