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IVF for gender selection
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Mon, Feb 19 2018, 10:17 pm
Have you ever heard of anyone doing IVF with PGD for gender selection in order to fulfill peru urevu, if they have a few kids already of he same gender?

Do you think its moral? Ethical? Halachically okay? Why or why not?
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amother
Wheat


 

Post Mon, Feb 19 2018, 10:20 pm
amother wrote:
Have you ever heard of anyone doing IVF with PGD for gender selection in order to fulfill peru urevu, if they have a few kids already of he same gender?

Do you think its moral? Ethical? Halachically okay? Why or why not?

For pru u'revu? That's ridiculous! God does not ask this of you.

If somebody was really pining for a specific gender I can hear that even though it's extreme but people do extreme things to fulfill wants.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 19 2018, 10:21 pm
Is that even legal? Definitely very expensive.
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flowerpower




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 19 2018, 10:22 pm
I know someone that did it. The poor woman had to go through injections so her dh can fullfill hos mitzvah. Never mind the cost....
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simba




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 19 2018, 10:23 pm
According to my Rov you need a heter to do IVF. I don't know if a Rov would give a heter if this is the reason for it.

Do people truly continue having more children for the sole reason of hoping to have one of another gender and be mekayem the mitzva? Not mocking, just wondering as it seems weird to me. You do what you can and Hashem will choose the gender. There is an element of playing God with this.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Tue, Feb 20 2018, 12:09 am
simba wrote:
According to my Rov you need a heter to do IVF. I don't know if a Rov would give a heter if this is the reason for it.

Do people truly continue having more children for the sole reason of hoping to have one of another gender and be mekayem the mitzva? Not mocking, just wondering as it seems weird to me. You do what you can and Hashem will choose the gender. There is an element of playing God with this.


There is an element of playing God, but you can say that with all IVF, especially with PGD.

Presumably the couple also wants to have both genders, not just fulfill the mitzvah only.
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chocolatecake




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 20 2018, 12:16 am
Never heard of it and I think that is kind of extreme. I believe that if you are able to have kids naturally then that is what hashem wants you to do even if you have only one gender. That being said if you have to do ivf for other reasons I dont think its so terrible to pick the gender.
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lfab




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 20 2018, 12:37 am
As the mother of 5 children of the same gender I would never even consider such a thing. If my husband and I end up worth o only children of 1 gender then so be our. If god wants us to have children of both genders he'd give it to us. At this point we still hope to have more children I"yh, so maybe we will end up with the opposite gender at some point. But at the end of the day we did our hishtadlus by having as many children as we felt able to. If we only land up with one gender that's on God not me, and I truly believe there is a reason that God chose not to give us childen of both genders.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 20 2018, 1:51 am
amother wrote:
Have you ever heard of anyone doing IVF with PGD for gender selection in order to fulfill peru urevu, if they have a few kids already of he same gender?

Do you think its moral? Ethical? Halachically okay? Why or why not?
First of all, there are extreme costs (even in israel, you have to pay something for this, but in america the price is exorbitant) that unless someone is swimming in the dough, I dont see how it would even be ethical to ask for assistance (monetarily) for something like this.

Then there is a whole other issue. I really think that IVF with PGD is an amazing thing, for people who, for whatever reason, could not have children any other way, but for gender selection? I think this is one of the most unethical things I have ever heard of. This isnt something fun and quick that you can do. Its not "let talk to the docs about doing this" and then two days later you are pregnant by IVF with PGD. It takes TIME and a lot of hormones pumped into your body, that, unless one HAS TO do that to fall pregnant, I personally, think it is a very bad idea.
And I feel like its making a mockery of those who really do NEED this, and not jsut want it.
And it has an element of playing god, which, in any way you look at it, is not a positive thing.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 20 2018, 6:36 am
I think if you are already doing IVF with pgd, it's not a bad thing. I think choosing IVF solely for that reason isn't quite kosher.
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Tue, Feb 20 2018, 10:49 am
I can only get pregnant with IVF and PGD. I was offered a choice of gender and turned it down, too weird! But I know someone else who has to do it to conceive as well, she had a bunch of boys and with her last cycle specifically chose a girl (yes she asked a shaila).

I also know someone who did PGD solely for gender selection. She had several boys conceived naturally and really wanted her last one to be a girl. But there's always a very tiny chance of a mixup... and she wound up with identical twin BOYS!

G-d runs the world.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Tue, Feb 20 2018, 2:24 pm
saw50st8 wrote:
I think if you are already doing IVF with pgd, it's not a bad thing. I think choosing IVF solely for that reason isn't quite kosher.


But why is it not kosher for this reason is my question.
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amother
Gold


 

Post Tue, Feb 20 2018, 2:29 pm
I never knew you could do gender selection...wow. what is PGD?
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 20 2018, 2:33 pm
amother wrote:
I never knew you could do gender selection...wow. what is PGD?


https://www.givf.com/geneticse.....shtml
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simba




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 20 2018, 2:36 pm
amother wrote:
But why is it not kosher for this reason is my question.


it is a question for a Rov. We can tell you what feels right/wrong to us based on personal feelings, experiences exposures but if you are seriously considering this you should speak to a halachic authority.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 20 2018, 2:37 pm
amother wrote:
But why is it not kosher for this reason is my question.
I think because it is like you are playing god.
Who are we mere mortals to pick and choose what gender our child will be? Thats not the way things work.
If someone need IVF iwth PGD for genetic reasons and the like, thats different, its helping to bring a hopefully helthy baby into this world. Picking the gender? That is not a must anywhere or any time.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Tue, Feb 20 2018, 2:40 pm
simba wrote:
it is a question for a Rov. We can tell you what feels right/wrong to us based on personal feelings, experiences exposures but if you are seriously considering this you should speak to a halachic authority.


I understand, I just wanted to discuss it philosophically at this point.
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amother
Rose


 

Post Tue, Feb 20 2018, 2:41 pm
Yes you can choose the gender while doing IVF - for example, there are diseases that only show up in boys, so there are people that have had sick babies, realized their genetic issues and went on to have healthy babies with the aid of IVF. You can choose relations, and it's mostly legal. There is another thing you can do that's not through IVF, it's where you spin the sperm and then implant only the ones you want. That's not legal in the US though. You can do it in EY or somewhere in South America.

And, for those who think it's horrible, I had a lot of fertility issues. I never went to IVF but I did a lot of other invasive things for a long time.

I have 4 of the same gender. I desperately want one of the other. It really kills me at times. but I'm 40 and I would have to do a lot of invasive techniques to get pregnant. Please don't judge other people. You don't know what's going on.
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happyone




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 20 2018, 2:41 pm
The only ethical reason to do gender selection is where gender related genetic ilness is involved. In cases of dominant genes and some x linked disorders it's commonly done.
IvF isn't simple halachically, financially and emotionally.
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amother
Slategray


 

Post Tue, Feb 20 2018, 2:44 pm
amother wrote:
But why is it not kosher for this reason is my question.


There are many complicated Halachic questions involved in IVF. IVF is almost universally accepted by Rabbis as permissible for couples unable to conceive a child naturally. It's done according to specific guidelines to minimize Halachic problems. To put a woman's body through everything IVF entails and to use Halachic loopholes Rabbis permit for the purpose of allowing a couple to have children just to choose gender seems completely unethical to me.
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