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Do you think for yourself?
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cassandra




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 10:15 pm
Maya wrote:

Here is your answer: Our education did not teach us to think critically. Mos of us (note I said most,not all) go along with the flow. Many times I ask friends or family why they are doing a certain thing, or why they bought a certain new item, and the answer is often that it's because everyone else is doing/buying it. But again, not everybody. Some do like to do their own things because they have brains, and some others do their own thing just to rebel against the group.

But I'm sure you can find this type of behavior in any community the world over.


Thank you, thank you, thank you. I want to reiterate THAT THIS IN NO WAY REFLECTS NEGATIVELY ON ANY INDIVIDUAL POSTER or even the chasidish world at large. Someone asked why it seems that certain people do things because everyone else does them, and I argued that perhaps in some communities critical thinking is not valued, and going along with the community is. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT CHASIDISH WOMEN ARE INCAPABLE OF CRITICAL THINKING, and of course THERE ARE MANY CHASIDISH WOMEN WHO CAN THINK CRITICALLY DESPITE THEIR EDUCATION. And I'm sure there are many chasidish women who do not think critically, but ARE STILL WONDERFUL PEOPLE.

Quote:
I have 12 college credits, and one of the classes I took was a critical thinking course. All it did was make me doubt whatever I read now. Sad


:sigh: Welcome to my world. But take another one and you will start to feel confident that some things are right and some things aren't.
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roza




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 11:21 pm
People, I just came on, after a long day out with my kids.

Critical thinking includes many intellectual processes.

When analyzing Torah texts, there are certain criterias and questions used in order to achieve clarity. This process is different from the one used in analyzing non-Torah texts (in college for example).

On the other hand, when making decisions (like what method of childbirth to use) and solving problems, someone who thinks critically:

Quote:
* raises vital questions and problems, formulating them clearly and precisely;
* gathers and assesses relevant information, using abstract ideas to interpret it effectively
* comes to well-reasoned conclusions and solutions, testing them against relevant criteria and standards;
* thinks open-mindedly within alternative systems of thought, recognizing and assessing, as need be, their assumptions, implications, and practical consequences; and
* communicates effectively with others in figuring out solutions to complex problems.


I agree that not everyone who went through college is a critical thinker. I also agree that not all ffbs women lack critical thinking skills and many are capable of making their own decisions (in addition to analyzing Torah texts)
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roza




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 11:39 pm
Maya wrote:


I have 12 college credits, and one of the classes I took was a critical thinking course. All it did was make me doubt whatever I read now. Sad


I just wanted to comment on this. While questioning is a part of critical thinking, it's not the only part. There are many components to it. So, when questioning Torah texts, certain standards are used to achieve clarity and understanding, you are not supposed to doubt or question the credibility of Torah texts. You may and should question credibility or accuracy of non- Torah texts.
Again, use critical thinking on when and how to use these skills.
Wink
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gryp




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 25 2008, 9:21 am
cassandra wrote:
chayitty wrote:
in the chumash rashi asks critical thinking questions as deos the rambam sifsei chachumim and so on.. in every jewish subject we learn from our chauchmim...to understand a mifrush u gotta use ur head so I can easily answer yes..we were taught critical thinking
as for in english sub... we learned them from the text bookswe dwelled into them and disscused the lit.
so basically over all yes..we learned critcal thinking



Using your brain is not the same as thinking critically. Is this where our misunderstanding lies? Were you taught to look at a text and ask your own questions and try to figure out the answers? Looking at someone else's critical thinking will only make you a critical thinker if you are highly intelligent and you can glean principles from Rashi. Furthermore, Rashi asks a lot of questions that he doesn't answer very well. I think Ramban is a much better perush for learning critical thinking than Rashi.


(and the Rambam's perush on chumash is very short and not well known, so I'm not sure if you actually used this in school or if you meant something else.)

And I'd love to hear more about how you analyzed texts in English class. I really would love to be proven wrong here, but so far no go.


I went to a pretty good school as far as critical thinking is concerned. Chumash we learned on our own, the teacher was there to help us. Pshat, Rashi, Meforshim, and more, was done on our own, each according to her learning skills, with a learning partner.

Learning Meforshim, if not spoon-fed, does teach you to think critically. After a while, you can begin to find the questions in the passuk by yourself.

Also, since we learn sichos and maamarim from the Rebbe, the Rebbe's style is a whole bunch of questions upon questions in the beginning, then the Rebbe gives possible answers, and then the Rebbe states why those answers don't exactly fit the questions like a real answer would, and then the Rebbe gives the answer and the reason why that answer is the real answer, and a lesson for us in life.
That's a whole lot of analyzing.



L'havdil, in our English class, in every text we read we were expected to critically analyze and write an essay on it. An essay in my school meant 5-10 pages, not that that was a set limit but there was no way anyone could cover the amount of material expected in an essay in less pages. At one point, in our short story unit, we were writing essays once a week. After a while every little thing I saw I was critically analyzing, and it was rather a horrid state to be in. Rolling Eyes
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red sea




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 25 2008, 9:38 am
I dont think thinking for yourself is a taught skill, its probably more of a mindset, either absorbed from those around you or developed as part of a persons growing up due to specific circumstances. (yet imo critical thinking is a skill that can be enhance thru teaching & wont necassarily help anyone think for themselves).

Yes, I think for myself, always have as far back as I can remember.

But I also want to point out that the example of dressing like everyone else does not inherently mean a person did not think for themselves. They may have well and decided that it is in their interests to blend into their surroundings in certain ways. You cant know the why unless you ask - did you buy those clothes cuz everyone else wants you to?
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Atali




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 25 2008, 9:50 am
Also, I don't think that being able to think critically in an intellectual sense and being able to think critically in a practical sense are always connected. I know plenty of "street smart" people who do a lot of research before deciding what to buy, etc., but are not particularly intellectual and therefore are not inclined to think about deep issues.

The converse is true as well. I know people who think about things deeply on an intellectual level, but just go with the flow on a practical level.
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chayitty




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 25 2008, 10:07 am
it also depended alot on the teacher ....some teachers expected us to use our minds more and made us question....some wernt as experinced
I do recall a couple of times questioning things and some teachers just shrugging it off...
would u call someone who creative a critical thinker????
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