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First names or titles?
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mumoo




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 4:40 am
Do you call men (not dh) by their first names? Does it depend on who it is? Do you use first names when referring to them, but then address them with a title? Do you mind if men call you by your first name?
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 5:04 am
In most circles it's not really done for adults to use "sir/mrs" for other adults they know, so I use the first names when asked to. Still a rabbi I prefer calling "rabbi" or "monsieur" (sir), although many call rabbanim too by the first name (except in charedi circles).

I refer to people as "first name" if I call them like that, or "sir/rabbi X" if that's what I call them.

I have absolutely no problem with men calling me by first name. I used to like "madame" (mrs) when I got married, but now I find it "old", and anyway most people who use a title for me still use "mademoiselle" (miss) because they can't get it in their head that I'm not the typical 23 yrs old (unmarried) girl. LOL

I feel for some it's almost insulting to still use "sir" after a few encounters, because it means you don't want to be an acquaintance (like you dislike them).

I always start by titles, and I see. But it's very rare that an "equal" will want it to continue, male or female.


We French people also have the tu/vous (thou/you) thing. I always start by vous, and I switch when asked to. Most people use tu with me because I'm young, but sometimes kids or teens, especially when they see I'm married, start with vous and I hate it. It makes me feel like an old lady! LOL
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mumoo




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 5:13 am
I think using first names lends an air of familiarity that is not appropriate between a man and woman. But I live in a rather modern neighborhood where its normal to use first names. it makes me uncomfortable. I was wondering if it's insulting that I don't use the first name (tho I don't think I would start using the first name anyway)
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 5:21 am
If they're anything like here, it's not a real insult but really a "I wanna be apart" statement (in their mind).
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suomynona




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 6:00 am
If I had to, I'd use titles, but I try to avoid having to actually call the person by their name altogether.
When I refer to people (husband's friends), sometimes I'll use the firstname, sometimes just the lastname.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 8:39 am
First names for men, unless they use professional titles, like doctor or rabbi. Everybody calls me by my first name, including my children's friends, which I know is off-topic.
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montrealmommy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 8:45 am
We try to say Mr. or Mrs. X or so-and-so's mommy or abba. Also Dr., Rabbi etc... When nec. we use aunt/Tante X. There are very few men I call by their first name (unless explicitily asked by siad person). We use titles mostly for chinuch of for our kids, so they get used to not calling someone's name w/o kavod.
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mumoo




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 1:32 pm
I was asking more for adult-to-adult more than for chinuch
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Crayon210




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 1:35 pm
I refer to men by first name when talking about them (it would be awkward to call my husband's friend Yosef "Mr. Schwartz"), and I don't really call them anything when speaking to them. But I would use Rabbi/Mr./Dr.

You're right about the familiarity, and I don't think it's so proper.
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grin




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 1:37 pm
I read that at work, davka not to use first names for the opposite s*x where there could be a tendency for familiarity. But at home (and I'm assuming each is with their spouse!), it's not necessary.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 1:42 pm
It could be a problem in places were all people (at work) call each other by name...
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Crayon210




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 2:13 pm
If you start from Day 1, then it's not such a problem. Sure, they'll think you're overly formal, but oh well.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 2:15 pm
but what if they tell you "please call me by my first name and say "tu" "? or worse, they notice you use the first names with women but not men?
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abismommy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 2:34 pm
why isn't it ok to explain that you reserve the less formal for those that you have close relationships with? and that casual relationships are only for your spouse and not for other men? is that offensive where you live? or just uncomfortable?
(hope that doesn't come across nasty - I didn't intend it that way!)

in our house, I might mention a first name of a man - but I would never refer to them like that if I spoke to them. DH wouldn't either. It just isn't b'derech tznius to say it like that. Call me whatever you want, but that is just how we do it.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 2:43 pm
It's very, very uncomfortable, yes. They won't understand why I don't do "like everyone". I would also never say casual relationships are only for my husband because they don't believe friendship between genders is bad, and they would think I'm a prude or a nut. Actually I don't believe it either (I have male friends), but I'm talking in theory, if I thought so, or if my rav didn't allow it.

I have brainstormed a bit, to remember how frum people talked to other frum people or to non jews, in the work setting, and I remember it being by first name and "tu"... talking very frum/outwardly frum here, not the modern.

I already don't do like everyone because I don't do the casual cheek kissing (they even do it at shul... I know it's innocent in their mind, but still I want to avoid it). Hence my "ultra Orthodox image" in my community, when I'm far from it...
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abismommy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 3:42 pm
wow ruchel, that must really be tough! but...hang tight - and be strong!
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 4:13 pm
I just shake hands now, or I smile or whatever. Or I fake, I do the kiss noise without touching the cheeks LOL
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HindaRochel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 4:35 pm
First names if known to me personally; I don't usually talk to men on a friendly basis of course, not the way I do with women, but I don't cold shoulder them either...see a friend/neighbor on the street and say hi, chat a bit. But if a Rabbi then of course if he acts as a Rav to me I would call him by his last name. Same for a Rebbetzin.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 4:41 pm
My kalla teacher wanted me to call her not only not rebbetzin, but by her cutesy nickname!!! think Didi instead of Elodie. Was haaaard...
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louche




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 24 2008, 7:37 pm
Depends on many factors. Who's older and by how much? Who's higher on the totem pole and by how much? How long are we acquainted? Is the relationship family, social or professional, and if social, how close? If dh is on a first-name basis with s/o, I'm not calling him Mr. Suchandsuch.
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