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Forum -> Working Women
Afraid of Taking Maternity Leave
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amother


 

Post Mon, Feb 25 2008, 3:04 pm
First of all, I am the main breadwinner in the home, so there is no option of my not working. If I lose my job, we are on the street. That's it.

Many years ago, I was working at a firm in NY in which the boss was bragging to my co-worker about how he got rid of a woman he didn't like (it was her personality not her work) by firing her on her way back from maternity leave. I was so shocked to hear this.

I work from home and live in Israel. While one cannot fire a pregnant woman or a woman on maternity leave, they can get around this, if they like the replacement better, by firing a woman as soon as she comes back.

I think my boss doesn't like me so much personally, and while he has complimented my work in general, he tends to notice every small error... It is not easy working while pregnant and this might cause a few errors, but overall, I think I am doing a good job. However, if my replacement is a man or is someone without kids or has other advantages, I am very scared of being replaced.

I am wondering if, just to be on the safe side, I could turn down the maternity leave and work at night when the baby is sleeping or spend extra money for help at home. The last time, I didn't get maternity leave and I returned to work a day after the bris...(I was working just 4 hours a day then, and worked when the baby was asleep)...
this was hard, but b'h I survived.

The bottom line is I cannot afford to lose my job..and I've seen this happen before. So I am pretty worried. Crying
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amother


 

Post Mon, Feb 25 2008, 4:11 pm
Op again...I'm bumping this up because I'd like some input. I haven't told my boss yet, but I am going to have to soon.
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 25 2008, 4:32 pm
I feel that the situation that you describe is not the best you can do. Why is this the only job you can have? Why not work in a nicer environment and get the maternity leave that you need? The fact that you are considering not taking maternity leave is really freaky. Hello? Your baby? Yourself? Is this the life you want to live? Is this the childhood that you want your kids to have? Believe in Hashem and you will find a solution. This is not normal at all. You had better take maternity leave. And if your boss decides to fire you? Forget him, he's a nasty guy and the environment does not sound like one that is family-friendly at all. Are you able to take off when your kids are sick? Will you be able to attend your kids' kindergarten plays? I dunno what the situation is with your hubby, but if you would ask a rabbi and describe the situation that you are in, you can be sure he would tell you that the responsibility of parnassah belongs to dh, and not to yourself. If that is a hard concept to swallow, then swallow it for the sake of your children, who all need that postpardum bonding time and mommy time and etc. Maybe you need to redo your priorities here. What is most important to you in life? Think about it. What will you regret in 50 years from now?

Last edited by gold21 on Mon, Feb 25 2008, 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ss321




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 25 2008, 4:35 pm
I dont know much about laws in israel, but the way you say it, it sounds like there are ways to get around these laws anyway....fisrt and foremost, I would say talk to an attorney who specializes in employment law. make sure you have all your ducks in order.
going back immediately afterwords, well gosh, I cant even imagine. I took 6 weeks, and was STILL a bit overwhelmed (and that was WITH a babysitter when I went back! and my moms cleaning lady those 6 wks once a week!), just getting back into things. But I guess if youre up for it health wise, and your doctor clears it, you could go back like a week later, I cant imagine anyone being so cruel as to dock you for your dedication in a case like that. If you really cannot afford to lose the job, I guess keep that "option" in mind, but only as a last resort? Can you afford a full time babysitter? can your husband chip in? do you have parents or siblings or friends around who can help out? Gosh...I can offer you sympathy, but besides commending you for your dedication, and telling you to speak to a lawyer, I dont know what else to say!!
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Marion




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 25 2008, 10:05 pm
Israeli labour law is as follows:

A woman cannot be fired when she is pregnant, on maternity leave (14 weeks, assuming you are working full time and have been for at least the last 10 months), or IN THE 75 [CALENDAR] DAYS FOLLOWING HER RETURN FROM MATERNITY LEAVE. In practice, this means your employer must have a job for you to return to for at least two and a half months after the end of your leave. Also, if you leave your job within 6 months of returning to work (in order to be home with your child, although I don't know how they check that), it is considered as though you were fired and you are entitled both to unemployment from Bituach Leumi (dmei avtala) and severance (pitzuim) from your company. Pitzuim are paid at the rate of one month's salary for every full year you worked for them.

There are legal ways for your boss to fire you during pregnancy or following your leave, but they involve an appeal to the Minister of Labour, are costly, and drawn out, and your employer would have to prove that your work is not up-to-par, that there is a professional basis for the termination, and that it's not related to you being female, pregnant, or a new mom. Most employers don't bother.
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hila




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 25 2008, 10:30 pm
If you DO work during the first 14 weeks you should forfeit your maternity leave pay. So if your employer pays you and pays BL for you - they WILL know and automatically take the money way from you.

When you sign up for the mat. leave pay you sign that you will not work during those 14 weeks.

I thought afterwards was 45 days not 75 , but maybe they changed that recently.

I do recommend telling your boss early enogh so he can get a temp instead of you.

Stand up for yourself and your rights. If you have problems - you can go to the citizens advice office. ( I know there is one in Iriat yerushalayim, and probably other places too)

Beshaa tova
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amother


 

Post Mon, Feb 25 2008, 10:41 pm
gold21 wrote:
Hello? Your baby? Yourself? Is this the life you want to live? Is this the childhood that you want your kids to have?
[/quote]
I think you must have missed the info that I'm a work at home mother....my baby would not be in anyone else's care, unless for a few hours in my home...

Quote:
describe the situation that you are in, you can be sure he would tell you that the responsibility of parnassah belongs to dh, and not to yourself.


my dh is a student and can not work. Any Rav would understand that.

Quote:
Maybe you need to redo your priorities here. What is most important to you in life? Think about it. What will you regret in 50 years from now?
[/quote]

I think feeding my kids and not ending up on the street is a priority. Thanks for understanding...

Quote:
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amother


 

Post Mon, Feb 25 2008, 10:43 pm
Marion wrote:
Israeli labour law is as follows:

A woman cannot be fired when she is pregnant, on maternity leave (14 weeks, assuming you are working full time and have been for at least the last 10 months), or IN THE 75 [CALENDAR] DAYS FOLLOWING HER RETURN FROM MATERNITY LEAVE. In practice, this means your employer must have a job for you to return to for at least two and a half months after the end of your leave. Also, if you leave your job within 6 months of returning to work (in order to be home with your child, although I don't know how they check that), it is considered as though you were fired and you are entitled both to unemployment from Bituach Leumi (dmei avtala) and severance (pitzuim) from your company. Pitzuim are paid at the rate of one month's salary for every full year you worked for them.

There are legal ways for your boss to fire you during pregnancy or following your leave, but they involve an appeal to the Minister of Labour, are costly, and drawn out, and your employer would have to prove that your work is not up-to-par, that there is a professional basis for the termination, and that it's not related to you being female, pregnant, or a new mom. Most employers don't bother.

OP here.
Thanks for the info Marion!
I really feel better now!
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hila




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 25 2008, 11:04 pm
Please make sure your employer is paying Bituach leumi for you. It is illegal for him not to do so. Check your tlush maskoret
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 26 2008, 12:02 am
amother wrote:

However, if my replacement is a man or is someone without kids or has other advantages, I am very scared of being replaced.


Don't forget that in Israel men go on miluim, so it is not such an advantage.

Apart from that, what Marion and Hila said is right; your employer cannot fire you here when you get back, and if you work during the first 14 weeks you will work for nothing, because you will lose your bituach leumi.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Feb 26 2008, 12:28 am
Thanks to Shalhevet, Hila and Marion for all the excellent advice.

a little information saves a lot of headaches!
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mimivan




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 20 2008, 12:10 am
Yikes...I'm freaking out (I was the OP)

I just found out the person hired to replace me has 10 years experience doing what I am doing (I have only 2) more qualifications, is non-Jewish so can work on Friday nights and chagim, lives in America so she can get the work done in a more timely manner...

and in short, I am afraid my days are numbered! Are you ladies SURE there is no way they can cleverly maneuver a way to give me the boot and replace me?

I cannot lose this job because dh doesn't yet make a living...
Crying

I know we said above they cannot, but is this airtight? There is no way of working around it and being sneaky...? I normally would not be so suspicious, but I worked at a certain well-known Israeli-American organization in NY and I saw firsthand how a woman got snookered out of her job while on maternity leave...so I am worried that maybe there ARE ways I don't know about.

I know I should just daven and have emunah and I will, but I can't believe they hired someone to cover for me who is so beyond my abilities...this is really intimidating and I'm kind of upset about it, although I know that reaction is illogical...why be mad at them?
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 20 2008, 12:29 am
Mimivan, first b'sha'a tova.

Practically: they can fire you if they really want to. They can appeal to the some system and prove that it's not because you're pregnant. If you have worked for them for a long time (say a year at least) it will be pretty impossible to prove that it has nothing to do with your pregnancy.

And now's time for a little emunah and bitachon. You are doing your hishtadlus - you are working to the best of your abilities and are following derech haolam in taking off maternity leave here in Israel. If you do lose your job you will get 14 weeks maternity leave and only then the unemployment pay/ time begins. Try and relax and rely on Hashem that whatever happens is for the best. If I were you I would daven that Hashem gives you parnassa in the best possible way - if you do lose the job, maybe it will be for something better.

Don't shortchange yourself, your baby iy"H and your other children by working during your maternity leave. We really have one up on America here, so enjoy!
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catonmylap




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 20 2008, 12:30 am
There's a new law that allows the husband to take the maternity for the wife after the first 6 weeks.

For a dh to take your maternity leave, does he have to be working?
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 20 2008, 12:32 am
catonmylap wrote:
There's a new law that allows the husband to take the maternity for the wife after the first 6 weeks.

For a dh to take your maternity leave, does he have to be working?


Yes, of course, since the BL is how much you earn.

Personally I think the law is pathetic. When men give birth and nurse their babies they can share the maternity leave...
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mimivan




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 20 2008, 12:34 am
shalhevet wrote:
Mimivan, first b'sha'a tova.

Practically: they can fire you if they really want to. They can appeal to the some system and prove that it's not because you're pregnant. If you have worked for them for a long time (say a year at least) it will be pretty impossible to prove that it has nothing to do with your pregnancy.

And now's time for a little emunah and bitachon. You are doing your hishtadlus - you are working to the best of your abilities and are following derech haolam in taking off maternity leave here in Israel. If you do lose your job you will get 14 weeks maternity leave and only then the unemployment pay/ time begins. Try and relax and rely on Hashem that whatever happens is for the best. If I were you I would daven that Hashem gives you parnassa in the best possible way - if you do lose the job, maybe it will be for something better.

Don't shortchange yourself, your baby iy"H and your other children by working during your maternity leave. We really have one up on America here, so enjoy!


Thanks Shalhevet...

I think my pregnancy hormones are working overtime this am...
I needed to hear that...Yes, and if chas v'shalom they want to work that hard to prove the should fire me then fine...it's all in the Hands of Hashem
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HooRYou




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 20 2008, 1:16 am
mimivan wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
Mimivan, first b'sha'a tova.

Practically: they can fire you if they really want to. They can appeal to the some system and prove that it's not because you're pregnant. If you have worked for them for a long time (say a year at least) it will be pretty impossible to prove that it has nothing to do with your pregnancy.

And now's time for a little emunah and bitachon. You are doing your hishtadlus - you are working to the best of your abilities and are following derech haolam in taking off maternity leave here in Israel. If you do lose your job you will get 14 weeks maternity leave and only then the unemployment pay/ time begins. Try and relax and rely on Hashem that whatever happens is for the best. If I were you I would daven that Hashem gives you parnassa in the best possible way - if you do lose the job, maybe it will be for something better.

Don't shortchange yourself, your baby iy"H and your other children by working during your maternity leave. We really have one up on America here, so enjoy!


Thanks Shalhevet...

I think my pregnancy hormones are working overtime this am...
I needed to hear that...Yes, and if chas v'shalom they want to work that hard to prove the should fire me then fine...it's all in the Hands of Hashem


Good for you Mimi! You are so right. I feel like I have had more jobs than I can count and some really crazy stories about being fired. Each time money came from somehwere while I was out of work and at just the right time new work came. One of the best times in my life was when I was on unemployment and my best friend payed for me to take a course to keep me busy. Jobs are completely from shemayim and I think that being on unemployment with a young baby doesn't really sound too bad.
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e1234




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 20 2008, 1:28 am
oh boy can I relate..
I'm a freelancer.
but I have one really big client - and I just decided that I don't even think I'm going to tell him at all I'm expecting.. ..

I will probably tell other clients if it comes up but for him (who is my biggest client) -- I am going to tell him that I am having company in August (which is true) and the kids are home so I am only working on real emergencies then...
means I will start working earlier then I want as I can't take off September also - but I don't know if I really have a choice....
last august I also took off a few weeks so it's not unreasonable and for emergencies I will have to be available anyway (well except for the time in the hospital which I hope won't be an issue and nothing will come up then)
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mimivan




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 20 2008, 1:48 am
Now you are reminding me of when I was a freelancer...Oh boy! some of those clients can be pretty hard nosed.
b'hatzlacha...I hope everything works out for you and b'shaa tova..
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 20 2008, 7:32 am
OP, you don't mention whether your employer is an Israeli or U.S. firm and whether you are a regular employee or an independent contractor. These answers will significantly impact any legal advice.

Don't automatically assume that your replacement will do a better job than you do or that your boss will like her better. If he's a micro-manager, he may like a more experienced employee less.

That said, if you want to keep this particular job, I'd minimize maternity leave as much as possible. It might even be worthwhile to get extra help in the beginning. I've always had to return to work within the week, so I usually got someone to babysit a few nights a week so that I could sleep. It strained the budget for a couple of months, but it enabled me to keep a job that couldn't easily be replaced.
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