shiva call on the phone

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Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette

Shiva call on the phone

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mom of girls

Thu, Mar 06 2008, 12:01 am

my sil is sitting shiva for her father. she lives over seas...have very little with her. what do I say to her???

Mama Bear

Thu, Mar 06 2008, 12:13 am

that you were sorry he passed away, how old was he, what happened to him, may he be a mailitz yosher for the family.

grin

Thu, Mar 06 2008, 2:12 am

when it's impossible to go in person, you definitely can (and should) call.
You certainly don't want her to feel you're ignoring her.

mummy-bh

Thu, Mar 06 2008, 4:19 am

Tell her something nice that you remember about her father - from her wedding maybe, or another occasion or any other story you may have heard.

ChossidMom

Thu, Mar 06 2008, 4:33 am

I just call and say how sorry I am. I tell them that there really are no words.
And I say "Hamokom Yenachem etc." I never ask questions unless they start to volunteer information. There is a reason that when at a shiva you are not allowed to begin speaking with a person until they speak first. The phone is even more difficult. Say as little as possible.

HooRYou

Thu, Mar 06 2008, 4:40 am

Good for you for calling. It doesn't matter so much what you spcifically say, but rather that you say you are sorry for the loss. You also would follow the sutom of letting the mourner start the converstation and follow her lead.

When I sat shiva for my father O"H in the US it was hard for me since I had lived in E"Y for so long that I really didn't have a kesher with anyone anymore. B"H many very thoughtful friends called me (I think one of my closest friends organized it all) even people who I hadn't seen in years called. It was nice just knowing that they cared and feeling a little less alone.

sarahd

Thu, Mar 06 2008, 5:57 am

You don't have to stay on the phone more than a minute or two. All you need to say is how sorry you are about her loss, wait to see if she says anything that you can respond to and finish off with "hamakom..."

VeraR

Thu, Mar 06 2008, 6:11 am

when I sat shiva it meant so much when people phoned - it wasn't so much the conversation itself, but the contact. Go for it!

louche

Thu, Mar 06 2008, 9:00 am

Mama Bear wrote:

that you were sorry he passed away, how old was he, what happened to him, may he be a mailitz yosher for the family.

NONONONONO!!!!! This is not an interview for an obit in the NYTimes. Do NOT ask how old he was or what happened to him! It's none of your business and may only cause the avel pain if they don't want to think about it or talk about it. asking how old he was implies that if he was old it was "OK" for him to die, which is not at all how the family sees it.

State simply you're sorry for their loss and hamakom yenachem. remember, the avel doesn't have to talk to you. we wait for the avel to start talking precisely because it's his right to converse or not to. the menachem's job is simply to be there.

of course if you can't be there in person you're forced to talk, but don't insist upon talking to the avel. whoever answers the phone should find out first if the avel wants to talk before handing over the phone.

BTW, this is not louche talking, this is (talk about hashgacha pratit) the rav who addressed our community's chvra kadisha just this sunday.

shopaholic

Thu, Mar 06 2008, 10:48 am

I find that those sitting shiva usually do the talking because they know it's hard for you.

chocolate moose

Thu, Mar 06 2008, 11:37 am

You can send a card too.

louche

Thu, Mar 06 2008, 2:36 pm

momof3 wrote:

I find that those sitting shiva usually do the talking because they know it's hard for you.

which is nice of them but they shouldn't feel obligated. that's the whole point of letting the avel talk first. you're there to offer nechama if they want it; they're not there to entertain you.

greenfire

Thu, Mar 06 2008, 2:55 pm

speak from the heart

amother

Thu, Mar 06 2008, 11:52 pm

I can't believe someone here posted that you should ask how old the niftar was and what happened to him.
Those are 2 things you should NEVER ask. How rude!

Mama Bear

Fri, Mar 07 2008, 1:09 am

amother - from a sister in law??? it's different when you go visiting an acquaintance or far relative, but when it's a close family member such as a sister inlaw, I dont think it's rude.

My father and aunts got up from shiva this morning, these were the 2 most commonly answered questions, and no one minded replying! I was there while my aunts repeated the answers every 10 minutes or so, and none of them minded, they WANTED to talk about their mother and the shock of losing her.

Wha then should the OP talk about - the weather? what she ate for breakfast today? she's SUPPOSED to focus on the niftar and the niftar's life.

I apologize if I gave bad or rude advice, but I didnt think it's considered rude, esp since we just lived this through this week, my Bubby passed away suddenly and the family was quite in shock, esp my father who was overseas when it happened and he found out when he came home that he had missed the whole levaya alreaedy.... Maybe when it's an elderly parent it's not as painful to answer such questions when it's a young parent who may ahve been sick. OP, I hope you already called and it went okay.

rainbow baby

Fri, Mar 07 2008, 6:40 am

Please don't ask how old the person was. I got up from sitting Shiva for my father this week and to tell you the truth asking someone how old their relative is can hurt. My father was only 74 and had been ill for 30 years.

A few of my friends from oversees phoned and to tell you the truth I did all the talking, they did not have to ask any questions besides how are you, etc.... I was just touched that they had phoned. so just go for it be natural and do not be afraid, I think people are afraid of Shiva houses and there is no need to be.

Mama Bear

Fri, Mar 07 2008, 9:47 am

Okay, I retract my statement... I guess that's not a good question to ask, I apologize.

mom of girls

Sun, Mar 09 2008, 3:09 am

thanx for all your advice. it was a help. the call wasn't that bad, after all.

(MB, I did not ask how old he was, simply bec I already knew.)

didn't really talk much about her father-just about the time when he was nifter. (he had minyan....)

freidasima

Sun, Mar 09 2008, 4:03 am

to all those on this thread who had losses, directly or inderectly, my condolences.

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