Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Judaism
Searching for help with traditions...
1  2  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother


 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 12:32 pm
I converted, and my husband did not grow up observing more than trying to get kiddush in on Friday nights. We started becoming frum (seperately, and then together) in college, and now are trying to continue the upward movement, so to speak. G-d willing, our children will not know anything else!

We have studied, seperately and together, with a few different people, including different Rabbis and women, such as for my conversion class, Hebrew reading, kalla class, and a class for keeping a kosher kitchen, etc...

However, one thing that I find so frustrating is our lack of traditions and general knowledge. Everything is new! For example, I find some things on this site to be so confusing--just the Hebrew or Yiddish thrown in (I actually have a glossary web page open when I'm on to help me translate the words I don't know). I think it's a good thing overall for me to learn, and would like to be able to incorporate more into my daily life. If people could be mindful of this and translate when responding, I'd appreciate it!

I'm looking for three main things:

1. A good book, or a few, on general traditions or customs, preferably with references, definitely in English. (We are in a generally orthodox or somewhat yeshivish place, I think, but it's hard to categorize.) We are working with our Rabbi on our own situation, but I also want to understand more of what's out there, and even learn what questions to ask!

2. Some answers to a few things I have found here or other sources. I've tried to search online, and asked a few friends, and they know what I'm talking about, but have no idea why.

-What is this about nail cuttings and pregnant women/all women?

-Translations for internet speak: BH (Baruch Hashem--I think?), C"VS (best guess is Chas vashalom?), and anything else you would abbreviate here...

3. Any reassurance or stories for the sake of my children! I sometimes feel a little at sea, especially when something strikes me completely out of the blue (like not throwing away bread!? I had never heard of that.) There is just so much to learn, and sometimes I feel like DH and I are coming into the race halfway through. There are some things that people who have grown up in frum homes just know, and we're missing some of that. We're trying, which is important, and G-d willing their teachers will help (I feel Jewish school is an absolute MUST for us) where we fall short when the little ones are old enough for school, but...

Thanks for your help in advance!
Back to top

creativemommyto3




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 1:05 pm
Hi,

I am from a weak backround so I know how you feel. I am still learning. I think we all are. That is what being Jewish is all about. Learning and Growing.

Try to read: 1. The Book of Our Heritage by Eliyahu Kitov published by Feldheim, it's in English and three volumes , It's about the Jewish Year and Days of significance. Says a lot of the minhagim that are done.

2. The Jew and His Home by Eliyahu Kitov

3. The Kitzur Shulchan Aruch in English

4. Shemiras Shabbas Kehilchasah in English,Feldheim

5. Artscroll has books like " The Shabbos Kitchen", The Radiance of Shabbos ", halachos of Shabbos and Yom tov.

6. The ''Guidelines " series by R' Eliezer Barclay , Targum Press.



This is all I can think of. My father in law is a Ger so we are just doing what my husband looks up in the Sefarim and asks questions to his Rabbi.

I see you are in Israel. pm me if you want .
Back to top

Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 1:21 pm
don't worry amother. You could be FFB but not from the most common background in your community and you would be in the same situation.

I don't understand many jokes in my community, I don't know what "pkaila" or "fricasses" is (just that it's food), I don't know their tunes (b'h they have adopted more mainstream ones for shul lol), I don't share their history... and I don't even look like "a Jew" to them. I've been asked many times if I was a convert!
No, I'm FFB, but my family is from Poland and theirs from North Africa.

So don't feel bad. Many communities = many minhagim.

I didn't know about the nails either, just because my parents are MO and according to my dh, the nails is a Kabbalistic thing that MO people don't keep (I had to ask him about it).

My dh has been to school with MO kids, and many had a hard time with the prayers, what brocho to make on food, some didn't know the shema, many weren't used to wear a kippa and hated it! (before I'm bashed, yes this is very possible among MO in Europe to be like that). So really, don't feel bad. These boys learned, and from the level of Jewish education among the older MO generations, I am almost sure you know a LOT more than their parents, so your children won't have these problems. Just as long as you don't rely all on the school/Talmud Torah to teach brochos, prayers... you'll be very fine.
Back to top

sarahnurit




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 2:07 pm
First of all wellcome here!
Second, most people nowadays don't really have a tradition to follow, unless their parents kept the one that their parents kept etc etc. which is very rare...so the most important thing is to learn and to try to go forward little by little, starting from the basics and then exploring other territories...
About the nails, they are associated with klipah, impurity, like hair, so when we cut them we either burn them or bury them or flush them so that they are as far away from us as possible, and then we wash our hands for purification...yes it's kabbalistic...
I am Chabad, so we go according to kabbalah in many things, then again there are halachot and chumrot (stringencies) and it's nobody's place to say what chumrot you have to keep...
Just remember that Judaism is not supposed to be something frustrating, but something to follow with simcha, joy, so don't worry, go according to your own pace and your kids will see that you try to do your best and they will see that you love your lifestyle and they will not grow apat from it...
sorry a bit long! Very Happy
Back to top

sunnybrook




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 2:20 pm
Really admirable how much you're endeavoring to do, and not giving up after the initial enthusiasm wanes. Hopefully BSD (bisayata d"Shmaya, with Heavenly help) you will continue to discover more and more beautiful treasures in Judaism, which will help you to keep your batteries fully charged, even when the nitty gritty of daily routine threatens to overwhelm.
The reading list presented was very very good. I might prefer that you start with Rav Kitov's books, as it reviews both obligatory halacha, history and basic minhagim.
But please keep in mind that you do not have to take on all the minhagim of every different person you meet. You and your husband should try to decide together what sort of group you want to identify with, find some mentors within that group, or at the very least a Rabbi, and continue to develop from there. Oftimes there is a halachic principle involved as the rationale for a minhag, and you want to be consistent.
Best wishes -- and surely the principle will apply, "Haboh l'taher m'sahyim loh" -- "he who comes to purify, merits to be helped."
Back to top

ChossidMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 2:37 pm
I remember hearing that you have to be very careful not to let nails fall on the floor because if a pregnant woman steps on it, she may miscarry.

Other unusual things I learned after marrying a chossid:
According to the kabbala you don't cut nails after dark
Dont' dry your hands on your clothing after washing (causes forgetfullness)
Don't keep overnight an onion with it's head cut off (don't remember why - maybe I dried my hands on my clothes too often LOL)

and some other things...

The books recommended above are excellent choices.
Best of luck to you and don't seat it. Take it slow.
Back to top

sunnybrook




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 4:06 pm
All those pts you mentioned by Chossidmom are also by Litvish, altho maybe with kabbalistic roots. But I think these are accepted by all. Altho less knowledgeable might not observe
Back to top

amother


 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 4:40 pm
there seems to be a mistake about cabalistic vs generaly accpeted customs;
EG the source for disposing of finger and toe nails by burning or burying, is actually a .... GEMARA! not a kabala text by any means.
the confusion lies in the fact that anything which is seemingly more mystical was slowly dropped by many observant jews and kept mainly (though not exclusively) by chassidim.
I am sure there are other examples too, but that just jumped at me b/c my DH always often qoutes it as a GEMARA so I questioned him when I saw it being attributed to another source.
Back to top

Tzippora




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 4:49 pm
Your children should feel lucky to have parents that chose this way of life voluntarily and can have such an appreciation for it to pass down. Geirim are awesome.

Also, the nail clippings come from the gemara, but it is a health issue in their minds, NOT a kabbalistic one (there's no evidence for that). Since it is a health issue, and their science is not reliable, there is a good reason not to follow it. Although I still wouldn't encourage leaving nail clippings around the house, flushing them down the toilet would be sufficient.

(Also, please let's not argue the gemara's scientific validity. I don't see anyone tipping grasshopper eggs down their ear to cure earaches.)
Back to top

mum23




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 5:04 pm
I am leaving the stage to DH (I hope that is allowed);
the following is from memory but I believe it to be an accurate qoute:
while thegemara only writes 'rosha zorkan, tzadik kovran chasid sorfan' (a wicked person thorwn the carelessly, a righteous person [tzadik] buriesn them [modern day =flushing etc] and a pious one [chasid] burns them.
I believe it is rashi who explains it is because of the potential danger to the unborn fetus [in rahsi's words to the pregnant woman, so that she should not miscarry]
while rashi does not clarify if the danger is a natural one or a mystical one, it seems that in these things the talmudic sages took a holisitc view that spiritual danger is physical and vice versa.
while we do not use their medications since we dont know accurately hwo to administer them and thus would risk losing faith in our sages if they did not work, that rule is generaly not kept to precautuins and there are laws in shulchan aruch based on those sakanot up until just about 5-10 yrs ago someone published a collection called shemirat haguf vehanefesh.
(not familiar with the book well enough to say if it is onlyu reliable sources but it just shows the idea that when it comes to taking precautions we do not use the rule that we don not know enough about their remedies to take notice.
the counter point would be 'kivan dedashu ba rabim' meaning once something which it says to be careful was set aside and many pl were not careful with no harmful results there are grounds why we may be leneient with that. I have seen this in regards to bathing in the light despite the fact that bathing by candlelight is considered a mystical danger we apply the dashu ba rabim to electrical light. I have not seen it applied to nails not having potential dangerous effect, though it would be obviously interesting to be shown a source that does state what you say.
sorry for the extra length.
Back to top

montrealmommy




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 5:18 pm
A great book is Gateway to Judaism by R' Mordechai Becher (he has 2 others which are also more geared to the non born-frum person).

Neither my husband nor I were raised Orthodox. We were told by our Rabbi to take on bli neder (without making an oath or pledge) the minhaggim of his (dh) yeshiva until we feel comfortable enough to ask questions and decide for ourselves (ex. in most yeshivish communities boys have an upsherin at 3 and don't cut their hair until then, however, beither my dh nor I particularly felt any connection with this minhag and asked said rav who told us there is absolutely no reason for us to keep it if we don't want!, so we didn't!)

On the flip side, we were also told to not take on far off minhagim without either being immersed in a society that follows them or without very very very good cuase (an example of this is my dh's mother's family hails from Germany and he feels a certain affinity to the Judeo-German culture, we asked about taking on some of these minhagim, in particular keeping only 3 hrs b/w meat and milk and washing b4 kiddush, not hamotzi. the answer we received was NO, on both. the reason was becuase we were not living in a Yekkish (Jewish German) community and would therefore be doing something very different from those around us. If we were to move to a Yekkish community, then ,yes, we may take on all those minhagim.

Hope this helps. PLease pm me for anything!
Back to top

cassandra




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 5:30 pm
mum23 wrote:
I am leaving the stage to DH (I hope that is allowed);
the following is from memory but I believe it to be an accurate qoute:
while thegemara only writes 'rosha zorkan, tzadik kovran chasid sorfan' (a wicked person thorwn the carelessly, a righteous person [tzadik] buriesn them [modern day =flushing etc] and a pious one [chasid] burns them.
I believe it is rashi who explains it is because of the potential danger to the unborn fetus [in rahsi's words to the pregnant woman, so that she should not miscarry]
while rashi does not clarify if the danger is a natural one or a mystical one, it seems that in these things the talmudic sages took a holisitc view that spiritual danger is physical and vice versa.
while we do not use their medications since we dont know accurately hwo to administer them and thus would risk losing faith in our sages if they did not work, that rule is generaly not kept to precautuins and there are laws in shulchan aruch based on those sakanot up until just about 5-10 yrs ago someone published a collection called shemirat haguf vehanefesh.
(not familiar with the book well enough to say if it is onlyu reliable sources but it just shows the idea that when it comes to taking precautions we do not use the rule that we don not know enough about their remedies to take notice.
the counter point would be 'kivan dedashu ba rabim' meaning once something which it says to be careful was set aside and many pl were not careful with no harmful results there are grounds why we may be leneient with that. I have seen this in regards to bathing in the light despite the fact that bathing by candlelight is considered a mystical danger we apply the dashu ba rabim to electrical light. I have not seen it applied to nails not having potential dangerous effect, though it would be obviously interesting to be shown a source that does state what you say.
sorry for the extra length.


You can interpret Rashi's "danger" as the pregnant woman being so disgusted by the nail clippings that she would miscarry. There are many people who believe that we don't have to follow the health warnings in the Gemara (Among the best known ones: separating fish and meat and mayim acharonim)

And perhaps the Gemara takes a holistic view of sakanos (spiritual and biological being intertwined) but you can argue that the reason for this IS their limited scientific knowledge-- their entire view on the matter is very different than ours is today because of our advancement in knowledge.
Back to top

justanothermother




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 6:17 pm
Quote:
See Moed Katan 18 and Niddah 17. See Mishnah Berurah 260:6 and Be’er Heitev ibid, #2 who explains the reason for this is that before the sin of Adam, his garments were made of the same material as fingernails. However, when he sinned, he was stripped of these clothes and left with only his nails. Since Eve was the catalyst that led to this loss, the remnants of these garments may cause all future women to be punished. This reason is also cited by Eliyah Rabbah ibid, #2, and Sefer Mat’amim, Maarechet Sakanah #7. Prisha writes that if one’s nails fall to the floor, he or she should sweep the place where they fell (once they are moved to a different place, the nail clippings are no longer deemed dangerous). However, Eliyah Rabbah is of the opinion that this might only apply when the nails are swept to a different room. See Birkei Yosef, ibid #6, who follows the Prisha’s ruling. Prisha 241 rules that no distinction is made between fingernails and toenails. See also Shemirat HaGuf V’HaNefesh, 68:15, 19.
Back to top

cassandra




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 7:05 pm
justanothermother wrote:
Quote:
See Moed Katan 18 and Niddah 17. See Mishnah Berurah 260:6 and Be’er Heitev ibid, #2 who explains the reason for this is that before the sin of Adam, his garments were made of the same material as fingernails. However, when he sinned, he was stripped of these clothes and left with only his nails. Since Eve was the catalyst that led to this loss, the remnants of these garments may cause all future women to be punished. This reason is also cited by Eliyah Rabbah ibid, #2, and Sefer Mat’amim, Maarechet Sakanah #7. Prisha writes that if one’s nails fall to the floor, he or she should sweep the place where they fell (once they are moved to a different place, the nail clippings are no longer deemed dangerous). However, Eliyah Rabbah is of the opinion that this might only apply when the nails are swept to a different room. See Birkei Yosef, ibid #6, who follows the Prisha’s ruling. Prisha 241 rules that no distinction is made between fingernails and toenails. See also Shemirat HaGuf V’HaNefesh, 68:15, 19.


What does this prove exactly?
Back to top

Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 7:08 pm
cassandra wrote:
There are many people who believe that we don't have to follow the health warnings in the Gemara (Among the best known ones: separating fish and meat and mayim acharonim


Those health concerns are brought down in Shulchan Aruch. Which rabbis say you don't have to follow these laws in Shulchan Aruch?
Back to top

amother


 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 7:08 pm
OP here!

Thanks so much for the help and discussion. I appreciate it!

Brachot, davening, working on middot, we're doing, although constantly striving for better; kids are 3 and under. I'm a little concerned about the depth I can get to at times, but we look things up when needed (which is something I'm proud to pass on Smile )

Just lots of little things that come up, especially with kids, get me down sometimes. It's hard to feel like I'm lagging behind! (I think part of that's also ego embarrassed ) There are also plenty of times I wish I had a parental example to follow, such as my 3 year old hating to wear his tzit tzit (still working on this).

I know everyone is learning still, or should be, but it's nice to hear it from others, too! Thanks for the encouragement!
Back to top

cassandra




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 7:12 pm
amother wrote:
There are also plenty of times I wish I had a parental example to follow, such as my 3 year old hating to wear his tzit tzit (still working on this).


So did mine (when he was 3). His teacher actually suggested that we ask a shaila as to whether we can trim the tzitzis so that they didn't itch him, as he didn't like the feeling of them on his leg (we wear them tucked in). I don't know if this might be a solution for you, but if it is it's definitely worth asking.
Back to top

justanothermother




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 7:14 pm
cassandra wrote:
justanothermother wrote:
Quote:
See Moed Katan 18 and Niddah 17. See Mishnah Berurah 260:6 and Be’er Heitev ibid, #2 who explains the reason for this is that before the sin of Adam, his garments were made of the same material as fingernails. However, when he sinned, he was stripped of these clothes and left with only his nails. Since Eve was the catalyst that led to this loss, the remnants of these garments may cause all future women to be punished. This reason is also cited by Eliyah Rabbah ibid, #2, and Sefer Mat’amim, Maarechet Sakanah #7. Prisha writes that if one’s nails fall to the floor, he or she should sweep the place where they fell (once they are moved to a different place, the nail clippings are no longer deemed dangerous). However, Eliyah Rabbah is of the opinion that this might only apply when the nails are swept to a different room. See Birkei Yosef, ibid #6, who follows the Prisha’s ruling. Prisha 241 rules that no distinction is made between fingernails and toenails. See also Shemirat HaGuf V’HaNefesh, 68:15, 19.


What does this prove exactly?


Did help "prove" to my husband not to let his toenail clippings fly across the room. Beyond that, I thought it's interesting to learn in depth the reasons behind why some of us do the things we do.
Back to top

cassandra




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 7:18 pm
Yes, I am quite a fan of throwing out nail clippings too, but not for halachic reasons.
Back to top

justanothermother




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 23 2008, 7:19 pm
amother wrote:
...There are also plenty of times I wish I had a parental example to follow...


A friend of mine who is a ger has a frum family that "adopted" her. She goes to them often for Shabbos and Yom Tov, and she has developed a mother/daughter, father/daughter relationship with them. She observes their behavior as an act to follow, and goes to them for advice as well as follows most of their minhagim. She does this because her Rav instructed her to.

Do you have something similar to this? I expect it would help a lot. I am not sure if this is common or unusual.
Back to top
Page 1 of 2 1  2  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Judaism

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Searching for unique High School
by amother
35 Mon, Mar 25 2024, 8:39 pm View last post
Searching for Online Plus Size Cheap Mother Bride Dress
by amother
1 Thu, Mar 21 2024, 2:40 am View last post
Searching for an old thread...
by amother
9 Wed, Feb 14 2024, 5:17 pm View last post
Searching for the mashiv haruach song
by amother
8 Sun, Oct 15 2023, 9:17 pm View last post
Searching for resources of info
by amother
3 Tue, Aug 01 2023, 3:44 pm View last post