Improving Jewish Literature (merged)

realeez

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 4:11 pm

I read about someone in a room with 2 people but he had 4 sets of eyes looking at him. A couple of mistakes in a book is one thing and I personally can tolerate Wink

, but constant makes me crazy. I remember going nuts reading a book where a character switched back and forth between 2 names and another book where the spelling of the character's name kept changing.

My brother had a field day finding dozens of mistakes in one book alone. That's just inexcusable!

As for those couple of mistakes, I think you need a lot of people to read the book at least 2 times each. Usually, the first time people might miss the mistakes since they are too caught up in the plot but by the second time they should get it. I don't think one editor is enough.

(ETA: And if you are making more than a couple of mistakes, you honestly shouldn't be writing or translating a book)

daisy

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 4:24 pm

I also enjoyed Marcus Lehmann as a child. I think the books would be censored for having too much romance.

I once read a frum book that described brain surgery in detail. The description sounded like something I had once read in a Robin Cook novel. I looked it up, and sure enough, I found the description word for word in the Robin Cook novel. I try to "dan lekaf zechus" and assume the writer asked permission to use the description, or maybe they both got it from an encyclopedia.

I agree with much of what it said in this thread. I have to confess, I don't read a lot of frum novels these days. I think there is an especially big problem with the novels that come out of Israel.

My mother actually writes to editors sometimes to complain about the lack of editing in frum publications.

MamaBear, I would love to read your book. How can I get it?

mummiedearest

Tue, Jul 29 2008, 4:47 pm

yy wrote:

mummiedearest wrote:

Sarale, hearing her friend's mournful plea, decided that after the next fifteen years of upsherins, she would devote her life to philanthropy. She decided to open an underwear gemach. "No one else has one," she noted, " and there is such an obvious need for one."

Fifteen years and two days later, there were eight pairs of underwear in Sarale's mailbox. She sighed with satisfaction, success was within her reach, her chessed would soon reach those in need. Soon it would all be worth it, all the planning, all the tears, all the joy. She only wished she could have done it sooner.

The next day her oldest son Kalman trembled over the phone wire, "Mamme, I-I-I-I-I-I'm engaged." Sarale knew for certain that the underwear had been the segula for the shidduch, it was bashert.

Sarale set out to make some chicken salad for the l'chaim. Of course, no one in the family made chicken salad like Sarale. She was always able to add that special homemade taam to her chicken salad. She infused it with good taste and a rich tropical bouquet. Tonight's chicken salad was important: she had to impress her future daughter-in-law, Shprintze Faiga Henya Mindel Kreindel Chaya Leah. Sarale wondered how this girl had gotten through life so far with such a long name. As far as Sarale knew, she went by all of them, all the time.

Shmuely came home five minutes later, bringing with him an assortment of breathtakingly beautiful cookies, cakes, and herring. "Chicken salad again?" he demanded, anxious about having to ingest the stuff again. He hadn't recovered from eighteen years of upsherin chicken salad. "How about a nice fruit salad instead? I never told you this because it was bad for shidduchim, but now that Kalman's engaged I don't have to worry anymore. I really don't like your chicken salad. In fact, I'm allergic to it. You never seemed to notice my face swell up after all those upsherins.... Well, I'm not going to take it anymore. I refuse to eat another bite of chicken salad ever again!!!"

Ima'la

Wed, Jul 30 2008, 1:48 am

bashinda wrote:

Ima'la, I think we're talking about the same book! You should be an editor.

lol, I am! Well haven't done it in a while and altogether I guess I didn't do that much of it, but I have done some professional editing.

Quote:

I missed that part about the 2 young children but you're right she would have had 1 or 3 but not two! Oops. Also in that book a character has a fall and I think his injuries change.

In general I enjoyed the book and looking back I think it's because although there is a bit of a thriller plot it's not the main plot and she spends time on characterization and how her characters grow and develop throughout the book. I found one character to be especially endearing and wouldn't even mind reading a sequel about her.

It just needed some more editing especially for continuity.

That's the other biggest thing I love about this author - great character development. I didn't think that book was a thriller - oh, I guess you mean the part about the not-so-honest assistant hiring those contractors - but that was plausible. Some of her books are more of thrillers, and I think it's silly - I like it better when she sticks to real life. I mean aidel frum people catching a kidnaper?

But she is one of the few authors who can combine a good plot and excellent writing and character development in the same book! Too often a book's plot is ridiculous OR the plot is not bad, but I look at the book and think it should be 100 pages longer - because if only the author had taken the time to develop the characters, the book would be so much more engaging.

hadasa wrote:

Can we start a "discrepancy in books " thread? I never noticed the coffee /tea in that book, nor the two young kids, but I was confused by the nosebleed that needed stitches on the forehead. The same author (who's one of my favorites btw ) has a character whose Hebrew birthday is Shavuos and English one is July 4th. Maybe there were three Adars that year.

I never noticed the injury discrepancy - I think I just assumed her face got pretty badly banged up! And I can't believe I was never troubled by Shavuos in July!!!! I'm re-reading that book for the shmagillionth time right now! But for the first time I noticed that if I am not mistaken, her younger sister finishes high school in only 3 years. I didn't check carefully to make sure I got that right - but I think she wasn't given enough time for 4 full years. (Not that she skipped a grade or anything.)

In a different book, the piano lessons magically switch from Tuesdays to Wednesdays.

Last edited by Ima'la on Wed, Jul 30 2008, 4:34 am; edited 1 time in total

sarahd

Wed, Jul 30 2008, 4:37 am

Raisin wrote:

I must've read each of those marcus lehmann books 10 times. Not including the ones that my school put on as plays ever year.

what in the world was inappropriate about them? I remember the Mina character whose husband goes otd and disappears...was that one too racy?

The one about Rabbi Akiva describes the love between Akiva and Rachel. In "Just in Time", two of the characters liked each other enough that the boy told his father he wants to marry the girl without a shidduch having been redd. And these are only the examples I came up with off the top of my head! How much racier can you get? Can you imagine how many kids have gone off the derech in the past 150 years because of Lehmann's books?!

Ima'la

Wed, Jul 30 2008, 4:40 am

Ooh, ooh, forgot one of my favorites! A married lady character's brother has the same last name as she does! Now, I cannot recall if her maiden name is ever mentioned, and Berger is a fairly common last name, so it is conceivable that she married someone with the same last name as hers...but I doubt that was intentional...

realeez, that's my guess, too, as to the source of the problem - I think MORE editors need to be doing the editing of each book. I feel uncomfortable criticizing because I have done editing, and I know that after reading it MUCH more than 2 times (more like 22 or maybe 44) there might still be a couple of mistakes that I missed. I think you need to have multiple people editing the same work.

hadasa

Wed, Jul 30 2008, 6:52 am

Ima'la wrote:

I didn't think that book was a thriller - oh, I guess you mean the part about the not-so-honest assistant hiring those contractors

There's so much going on in that book, I'll forgive you for having forgotten about the teenager being stalked by a murderer.

Quote:

I never noticed the injury discrepancy - I think I just assumed her face got pretty badly banged up!

It wasn't her, it was her baby brother who needed stitches.

I checked out the cofee/tea thing, but I don't see a mistake there. The secretary made him coffee, but it was the secretary's husband who was drinking tea! Unless it's on a different page?

I noticed the Berger slip-up, too.

smilethere

Wed, Jul 30 2008, 8:00 am

I actually try to get through the books so fast, that I don't notice half the mistakes, I just come out with a really sour taste.

a book I read recently - very newly published, I heard ravings about, started reading it, and waited for the story to happen - till I realised that I had turned the last page!

I love marcus lehman - and I am 21 years old - my mother saved them! and yes - I am sure they would be censored today - how ridiculous

because I have read plenty of jewish love affair kosher novels, that didn't make too much sense - because they needed to be kosher I suppose

Ima'la

Wed, Jul 30 2008, 8:59 am

hadasa wrote:

Ima'la wrote:

I didn't think that book was a thriller - oh, I guess you mean the part about the not-so-honest assistant hiring those contractors

There's so much going on in that book, I'll forgive you for having forgotten about the teenager being stalked by a murderer.

Oh, right. It's been a while! Good there there was a rabbi & frum lawyer to catch him!

hadasa wrote:

The bottom line is, I'd rather be exposed to bad writing than to bad Hashkafos.

My feelings, too.

smilethere wrote:

Good for you - I admire you - and respect you for your decision

And I admire your attitude!

bashinda

Thu, Jul 31 2008, 2:33 pm

hadasa: it's on a different page; he's in the office when the secretary serves him tea which turns into cold untouched coffee.

And I think it's the baby whose injuries change. I can't remember. That whole scene was a bit forced.
Okay so now I had to look it up. The baby's injuries change from a bloody nose to a lacerated forehead. OOPS!

But she's one of the better authors. In fact I decided to order "Forever and a Day" from the used books site.

And I agree with Ima'la. You need the official editor and then "beta tester" editors who can read it over for continuity and overall readability.

Btw, how do you get into the editing field, Ima'la? I think I would love to do that when I go back to work if possible.

I also admire your attitude, hadasa. It's something I'm trying to work on. Although I have been careful not to read secular fiction my attitude needs to change. I realized that when I thought something extremely inappropriate about a tzaddik and I realized it was all based on nonsense I've been brought up on through secular novels. That sort of gave me a heads up and to not be somewhat resentful about this. Sometimes I think "so and so reads secular fiction and she's frum and has similar hashkafa. Why can't I?" And I have to realize that for whatever reason she can but I can't. It's not good for me. *Sigh*