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What should I do?? (Employee looking at inappropriate sites)
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amother


 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2008, 9:55 pm
I own a frum business and due to cutbacks, I have one person working there alone and things are very slow. I am trying to get something new off the ground, so I have left my employee mostly on his own for the last few weeks.

Today I wanted to see what he has been up to lately, so I went into his computer history. I was sickened to see that he has been spending a large portion of his time looking at deviant [filth].

In a panic, I went to show DH to ask for advice. DH is mad at me b/c he says it is pure LH and I should have never told him. DH also thinks I cannot say anything right now, b/c he may get upset and quit, and things do get busy right before Pesach which is exactly when I do not have time to do the work myself. And even if I did say something, what exactly do I say? How do I face him tomorrow? How do I say hello to his wife? I am freaking out a little. I am also insulted that he could look at such sickness in my office. Yes he is alone there, but it is MY office and MY computer. And it's not even normal stuff, it is really out there things I could have spent the rest of my life never knowing that people actually wanted to see that. And also, how could he be so stupid?? Doesn't everyone who works in an office know that their boss can see everything they do?
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Hannah!




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2008, 10:31 pm
edit

Last edited by Hannah! on Sun, May 04 2008, 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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happymom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2008, 10:35 pm
I dont think u should say anything to him about. if it bothers you u should fire him and when u hire someone else be clear that u dont want anything but work on your computer. its his buisness and unfortunately he has a yeitzer harah for that. who knows why or what is going on in his life but talling him about I dont think will cause any good to eaither of u.
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Love My Babes




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2008, 10:52 pm
you do not need to say anything to anyone. get the Jnet, or some kind of site blocking program. at my sisters place they cant even check personal emails or facebook or chat sites or anything that can disturb worktime. theres nothing wrong with a boss setting rules. but u can do it in a way that he does not have to know. just one day when he comes to work, it will say 'this site is blocked...'.

about facing his wife, u do not need to tell her, and its not her that did it anyway, so y should u be embarressed of her? cuz her husband did something u dont think is appropriate? I think u shouldnt ivolve her.
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louche




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2008, 10:54 pm
what's upsetting you--that he watches [filth], or that he's doing it on your time and your computer? you may or may not want to fire him, but you have just cause to do so. first he's using your computer for personal business, which you may not have given him permission to do. second, although you have no right to tell him what he can and cannot do in his private life, you certainly can tell him what he may and may not do on your time and your computer. if he's surfing the net, even if all he's doing is finding out what's on sale at the 5 and 10, he's not doing the work for which you're paying him.

you should put together a formal computer use policy for your business in which you stipulate what an employee may or may not do. you may not want to allow any personal use at all, which is perfectly acceptable. or you may want to allow them to access personal email and the like during their breaks or before or after work but require them to ask permission before doing so. you should include a clause stating that at no time are they permitted to access, view, download, receive or send offensive material, including [filthy], obscene, violent, or ethnically-biased material, and any violation of this policy will be cause for termination..

as to whether or not to fire him, as hannah says, you must decide whether his value as an employee outweighs the other. Only you can decide that. If you decide to can him, you really must tell him why, even if you live in an "employment at will" state. It's the only ethical thing to do. At least he'll be warned not to be so stupid next time. If you just fire him and don't tell him why, he may think it's just because business is slow, and go on to do this at his next place of employment.

as to how you say hello to his wife, you say hello exactly the same way you say hello to anyone else. she's not the one who's been stealing your time and polluting your computer.
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Mama Bear




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 06 2008, 11:52 pm
Put in a filter. and dont say anything to him.
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HindaRochel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 07 2008, 2:29 am
I would

1. Clear the history
2. Put in a filter and
3. Tell him about the filter and, quietly and without judgement, that certain things aren't permitted to be viewed on your computer. I would say something like "pornagraphy and hate sites" or whatever you don't want on your computer.
4. If he started to defend himself or say anything else I would say it isn't my concern. I just wanted him to know for future reference.
5. Say nothing to anyone else.

I think going to your dh for advice was correct. I don't think that constitutes lh.
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red sea




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 07 2008, 9:11 am
amother wrote:
I own a frum business and due to cutbacks, I have one person working there alone and things are very slow. I am trying to get something new off the ground, so I have left my employee mostly on his own for the last few weeks.

Today I wanted to see what he has been up to lately, so I went into his computer history. I was sickened to see that he has been spending a large portion of his time looking at deviant [filth].

In a panic, I went to show DH to ask for advice. DH is mad at me b/c he says it is pure LH and I should have never told him. DH also thinks I cannot say anything right now, b/c he may get upset and quit, and things do get busy right before Pesach which is exactly when I do not have time to do the work myself. And even if I did say something, what exactly do I say? How do I face him tomorrow? How do I say hello to his wife? I am freaking out a little. I am also insulted that he could look at such sickness in my office. Yes he is alone there, but it is MY office and MY computer. And it's not even normal stuff, it is really out there things I could have spent the rest of my life never knowing that people actually wanted to see that. And also, how could he be so stupid?? Doesn't everyone who works in an office know that their boss can see everything they do?


Youre not the first employer with such a story on your hands. I am not so sure its l"h that you told your husband, you may have met all the conditions for "toeles". You went to him upset & for advice. Many employers have installed programs to block access and/or track employees internet use. I dont think he'd quit but you never know. Basically he needs a good "screaming at" from the boss that is not acceptable work at a minimum.
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Love My Babes




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 07 2008, 9:41 am
HindaRochel wrote:
3. Tell him about the filter and, quietly and without judgement, that certain things aren't permitted to be viewed on your computer. I would say something like "pornagraphy and hate sites" or whatever you don't want on your computer.

actually doesnt sound like the OP would say such a thing. I dont even thinks its tznius for a woman to tell a man 'we dont watch .... at work.' just get the filter. he'll get the point pretty quickly, and noone has to embarress themselves. and I dont think thats reason to fire a guy. who said he's not doin his job? I had a job that was not busy 24/7. if there was extra time I would go online sometimes. thats not reason to lose a job, even if he went sites u dont approve of. thats what filters are for. so he can only go places u approve. I still believe nothing should be said.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 07 2008, 9:54 am
your place you rule ... hm - try the filter first - if that doesn't work take it a step further by telling him it is unacceptable ...

and as for his wife - well if you are worried about him looking at [filth] it is not necessarily the end all to a relationship - and I would not say a word - many people "shoot the messenger" ...
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DefyGravity




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 07 2008, 9:56 am
FTR, when people work for the government, it's really hard to fire someone - unless you find out they've been looking at [filth] online. That's practically the only way you can get fired when you're a government worker. That, or s-xually assaulting someone.
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 07 2008, 10:02 am
DefyGravity wrote:
FTR, when people work for the government, it's really hard to fire someone - unless you find out they've been looking at [filth] online. That's practically the only way you can get fired when you're a government worker. That, or s-xually assaulting someone.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02.....login
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red sea




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 07 2008, 10:45 am
Interesting article clarissa. I was once reprimanded for playing solitaire at my desk, but I explained to the boss that I was on my break and had nothing better to do.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Apr 07 2008, 10:46 am
Thank you everyone for your advice.

-I don't want to tell his wife at all, I don't know how to look her in the eye when I see her, knowing what her husband had a taivah for. But I can't start avoiding her when I see her at the supermarket. I wear my heart on my sleeve, I am worried she will see me looking at her funny.

-I feel in a way like it is my fault, I put him in an office alone with internet access and left him without a full workload, right now he can get his work done in half a day, the rest of the time he is on his own. Usually I would find projects that need to get done, but I am so busy right now, I don't have time to put the projects together.

-I can't say something to him directly, I am a woman half his age. The more I think about it, I realize, if he knew I knew he would most likely quit.

-I can't fire him right now, it takes months to find someone who is qualified for the job and to train them in.

-DH thinks there was no reason to tell him because since I can't take any action, there was no reason to tell him. DH knows him socially, that's how I met him for the job. This is a business I run mostly without DH's help, so my coming to him for advice now was unusual and really did not accomplish anything in the end anyhow, except for me to get it off my chest.

-I want to install a filter, but I am worried that if I do, he will know that I found out and he will be so embarrassed. If embarrassing a person is like killing them, is my installing the filter even worse than what he is doing?

-I thought I could tell him that I don't mind if he arranges an afternoon chavrusa for an hour or two on my time. That way he has a better way of filling his time. But then things will get busy again soon before they get slow again. Is it even normal to start an on again, off again learning schedule?
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red sea




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 07 2008, 10:52 am
If you dont want to deal with it at all I think you can just install a filter and act like nothing happened if you want or tell him you bought and installed it on your home computer too or tell him you had an IT person do some work on the computer - updates or some lame excuse and now its filtered at their reccommendation.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Apr 07 2008, 10:55 am
red sea wrote:
If you dont want to deal with it at all I think you can just install a filter and act like nothing happened if you want or tell him you bought and installed it on your home computer too or tell him you had an IT person do some work on the computer - updates or some lame excuse and now its filtered at their recommendation.


I like that idea.
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faigie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 07 2008, 10:59 am
boundary issues here.
put the filter on the puter. he wont have the nerve to say anything. if he does, tell him its company policy. if he argues......... you need to fire him( hello if hes that addicted to deviant [filth], and he argues, u wouldnt want to be alone with him anyway.
DH could have been supportive. if this was my kid, and her business, and I found out that my friend who was alone with her, was looking at deviant [filth], I would be concerned. heck id be angry.
THIS IS NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM YOUR FAULT> this man could have taken a sefer with him to learn during down times. [filth] isnt his only option for down time entertainment.
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red sea




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 07 2008, 11:04 am
amother wrote:
red sea wrote:
If you dont want to deal with it at all I think you can just install a filter and act like nothing happened if you want or tell him you bought and installed it on your home computer too or tell him you had an IT person do some work on the computer - updates or some lame excuse and now its filtered at their recommendation.


I like that idea.


Or you could actually pay an IT guy to install the filter and update stuff while they are at it so it will be true-
I dont want to encourage lying here, so... but I do understand its totally uncomfortable being all the reasons especially he's twice your age and you know them socially.
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louche




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 07 2008, 11:21 am
embarrassing a person IN PUBLIC is considered like killing him. Kol hamalbin pnei chaveiro ba-rabim, k'ilu shofech damim. f he's ashamed of himself in private when he tries to do something improper (on many levels) and finds he's been stymied--well, he should be. and it's no concern of yours.

That being said: I like the IT update thing if you plan to retain this employee, but I wouldn't mention it at all unless he asks. Do you inform him every time you download software updates? If not, there's no reason to do anything different now.
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happymom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 07 2008, 12:21 pm
Quote:
Tell him about the filter and, quietly and without judgement, that certain things aren't permitted to be viewed on your computer. I would say something like "pornagraphy and hate sites" or whatever you don't want on your computer


I think that would be embarrassing another jew. by him coming to work and seeing that the site is blocked I think he will get the point and both will be happy because whether he wants to or not he wont be able to go to those sites so the issue will be solves. I dont see why it needs to be mentioned at all.
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