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Shaking hands in business world - dealing with Shomer Negiah
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What do you do when a man tries to shake your hand?
Kindly explain about your religious beliefs  
 52%  [ 74 ]
Shake their hand politely  
 45%  [ 64 ]
Say a rude, witty comment  
 0%  [ 0 ]
Fake a diversion such as dropping a pen, coughing  
 2%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 142



waterbottle




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:18 am
One of the hardest things for me is explaining that I don't shake hands with men. In fact, I am terrible at it. I always plan these ideas for what I'm going to say, and how I'm going to say it but when it comes down to it I get nervous and shake their hand. Where I live, I may be the only Orthodox Jewish women they've ever come in contact with, and although I want to properly represent Torah, I am too afraid to embarrass them or Jeopardize my career.

Could you please give me tips on how to avoid shaking hands and what statement works the best. I even thought of pretending to cough or sneeze into my hand right as they pull out their hand, but I don't want to be deceptive.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:22 am
I don't understand why so many frum people are so nervous about this. I suppose you don't want to insult the guy whose hand you don't want to shake? just remember that most of america is heavily into being politically correct these days. they can't fire you or demote you for not shaking hands.

if you don't want to mention religion as a reason for not shaking, make a witty comment about donald trump. he doesn't shake hands either, and look where he is!

or you can just do the simple thing:

say "I'm sorry, I don't shake hands." continue with the conversation.
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Mimisinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:31 am
It's funny Mummie - this is not so true. There are a lot of people in the business world who holds that the hand shake is binding. To not shake hands is a sign of deception. People won't work with you. Just another side of all this.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:35 am
I'm waiting for much misunderstanding and assumptions (not from you OP), but my advice would be... ask a rav!

I come from a community where shomer negia is for "frummies" - and it's a progress, because 5 or 8 years ago no one knew about it. People do cheek kissing at shul! Friends push each other as a game, mixed dancing swimming whatever you want.

I took upon myself to be machmir as a teen (when I learned about it), and started the resistance (I was a bit alone until my husband settled here!). These social codes were very important, so I felt more than a bit alone, as I also kept my new findings in (public!) school. I dealt with it.

As a distraction to kissing, I shake hands, or cough, or just say, if it fails "sorry I don't do the cheek kiss". Sometimes it helps if the person is warned in advance, either by you or someone else. All this With the guidance of my rav. If I'm "jumped on", I just don't do anything, and I do the kiss noise "in the air", so it wasn't me who touched. Again my rav's suggestion.

Ask your rav. Mine allows business hand shakes. More machmir/ultra Orthodox may say you are only allowed if the person extended the hand first, but not to initiate (I have seen some of them doing it themselves).

If in your situation it could hurt that you won't extend your hand towards people you are socially supposed to begin with (much older person, boss...), tell so to the rav, but he may say you still can't. Then an explanation is in order - or it will pass for rudeness, lack of manners, or worse, lack of respect. DONT hope people won't notice it. They will. Especially older people, they're big on this (younger ones may be big on the kiss).

I suggest in the mean time you do what I do about kissing but for shaking: try to prevent the shaking, and if it fails you just say you can't do it, and if he takes your hand before you can move, HE did it.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:36 am
true in some circles, but again, look at donald trump.

you know handshaking stemmed from distrust of others? people learned swordplay with their right hands, so if your right hand was occupied by someone else's, you couldn't run them through with your sword.
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AlwaysGrateful




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:38 am
I always think that short, sweet, and to-the-point works best.

Yes, I've used the diversion before, especially when there's someone else there that might be embarassed by an explanation (e.g. an orthodox Jew that DOES shake hands, the person's relative, etc). I can usually get by with acting a little bit spacey and just continuing to talk, looking straight into the person's face and "ignoring" the hand. I know in writing that sounds rude, but very often they just figure I didn't see the hand, and they're fine with that. (At social functions, I ALWAYS try to keep my hands full - with a cup of soda and a plate of potato chips if it's a food thing, with a notebook in my right hand and a writing utensil in my left if it's a business meeting without food.) I can usually just smile apologetically and move on with the conversation.

With all that said, very often if it's someone I'm likely to see again, I just stick with a short explanation: "Oh, I'm sorry! It's a religious thing, but I don't..." and at that point they usually get the gist and say "Oh, no problem! Sorry!"

Either way, the most important pointer at all that I can give you is to be VERY enthusiastic and friendly right after whatever you do, so that they don't take it as a snub. Something like, "Completely okay - Wow, I'm so happy to meet you though, and I'm really looking forward to working together. This project seems like it's really hitting the ground running, doesn't it?" or "No problem, really! [big smile] So you work in Department X? It's incredible how little I know about that department - but it sounds fascinating. What exactly do you do?"

Hope that helps...and you should know, it becomes SO much easier after the first few times. And people learn to respect you for it. Hey, at my workplace there is a vegan (who understands kashrus issues more than anyone else here), a guy with dreadlocks, a woman who often wears traditional Indian garb...Granted, the vast majority of people here are "normal," but I figure that if all of those other people feel comfortable enough to stick to their "interseting" practices, so can I! And I may as well be proud of it in the meantime...
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chocolate moose




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:45 am
dh's mashpia said it was okay, we must be the only lub that shake hands. that said, if we can get out of it, we do .....
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:48 am
Just bow and say "Konichiwa." They'll assume you're Japanese and will bow back. Or, right as they extend their hand, fake a huge, messy sneeze, take your shaking hand and wipe your nose with it. Trust me, they'll lose interest.

I don't see what's so hard about saying that you don't shake hands. Do a friendly little wave and give a very brief, "I don't shake," with a smile. The more comfortable you are and light about it, the better it'll be in terms of reactions.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:49 am
chocolate moose wrote:
dh's mashpia said it was okay, we must be the only lub that shake hands. that said, if we can get out of it, we do .....


I know others (I have seen it). But I don't remember if it was as an "asnwer" to extended hand, or if they initiated.
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:50 am
mummiedearest wrote:
true in some circles, but again, look at donald trump.
Must I look at Donald Trump? Eh.

mummiedearest wrote:
you know handshaking stemmed from distrust of others? people learned swordplay with their right hands, so if your right hand was occupied by someone else's, you couldn't run them through with your sword.
That gives me an idea. Maybe she should carry a sword. She meets someone, brandishes her sword and shrugs, saying, "I'd love to shake, but as you can see..."
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GramaNewYork




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:50 am
I can't bring myself to embarrass the man (or myself) when we first meet. However, if it is someone with whom I'll be working with on an ongoing basis, I do explain it to them so that they won't touch me anymore.
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Tehilla




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:53 am
I don't shake hands and I explain why.

no one has ever been offended, at least to my knowledge. to the contrary they've been grateful when I explained why.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:54 am
Quote:
Just bow and say "Konichiwa." They'll assume you're Japanese and will bow back. Or, right as they extend their hand, fake a huge, messy sneeze, take your shaking hand and wipe your nose with it. Trust me, they'll lose interest.


Personally, I find that a nice and short perpetual-leprosy explanation does the trick just as well. It's also a good conversation starter.
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NotInNJMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:57 am
I efuse happiness at meeting coworker, etc, and say something like "It's so nice to meet you. I don't shake hands for religious reasons"

Or, I'll just say, when offerred, if it's a "private" introduction, ie. one on one not in a group of people, I'd prefer not. Depending on if I will interact with this person again or not, I might just make an excuse that I am getting over a cold (like when I have to do something at the bank once a year) or just say I'd prefer not and smile and talk about topic X on hand.

We're all geeks where I work, so it's not such a big deal to assume one's a germophobe--esp during flu/cold season.
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GramaNewYork




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:57 am
I admire you, Tehilla, but I'm still afraid of embarrassing (not offending) someone.

Last edited by GramaNewYork on Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Blossom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:57 am
Clarissa wrote:
mummiedearest wrote:
true in some circles, but again, look at donald trump.
Must I look at Donald Trump? Eh.

mummiedearest wrote:
you know handshaking stemmed from distrust of others? people learned swordplay with their right hands, so if your right hand was occupied by someone else's, you couldn't run them through with your sword.
That gives me an idea. Maybe she should carry a sword. She meets someone, brandishes her sword and shrugs, saying, "I'd love to shake, but as you can see..."


Rolling Laughter Rolling Laughter
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NotInNJMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 10:59 am
oh, I also do the "have lots of stuff in my hands" thing when I go to meetings where I know I might me new people.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 11:01 am
Clarissa wrote:
mummiedearest wrote:
true in some circles, but again, look at donald trump.
Must I look at Donald Trump? Eh.

mummiedearest wrote:
you know handshaking stemmed from distrust of others? people learned swordplay with their right hands, so if your right hand was occupied by someone else's, you couldn't run them through with your sword.
That gives me an idea. Maybe she should carry a sword. She meets someone, brandishes her sword and shrugs, saying, "I'd love to shake, but as you can see..."


or she can propose a toast. you know that clinking glasses also stemmed from distrust? you'd splash your wine in the other person's cup in case they poisoned you.

aren't people jolly?
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justanothermother




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 11:02 am
I keep one of these in my briefcase and whip it out whenever I need to shake.
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HindaRochel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 14 2008, 11:15 am
chocolate moose wrote:
dh's mashpia said it was okay, we must be the only lub that shake hands. that said, if we can get out of it, we do .....


Same with us (though not lub) If I think I can explain I do, especially if I'm likely to meet them many times and they are likely to shake hands each time. However, I don't want to insult anyone and sometimes it is just better to shake hands and move on.
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