Shaking hands in business world - dealing with Shomer Negiah

amother

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 8:51 am

my husband must shake hands at work...
I went with him to his boss' function and had to shake allt he partners hands and his boss' hand.
Let this be my one wrongdoing (unforutnatley there are more...but hopefully of smaller calibre) if only we all considered LH to be just as strict

amother

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 9:18 am

amother wrote:

Let this be my one wrongdoing (unforutnatley there are more...but hopefully of smaller calibre) t

If this is the worst thing you do you are ok as many people don't consider it wrong. Just look at the poll-- almost an equal number of people shake hands that don't, and I would guess that most of those do not consider themselves sinners.

When we got engaged my husband was even given a psak by his (yeshivish) Rav that he could kiss my (MO) grandmothers. This area is not so clear cut.

Seraph

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 9:23 am

I actually have this issue...
With non jews I say "I don't touch men for religious reasons".
But what do I say when its a non religious or somewhat religious Jew?
Theres this one older male friend of my mother in law who EVERY time he sees me tries to touch me, and I try ducking away, because I didnt know what to say... and now its self purpetuating... I don't know what to do...

Ruchel

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 9:27 am

amother wrote:

Let this be my one wrongdoing (unforutnatley there are more...but hopefully of smaller calibre) t

interesting! did he say why it was ok?

Seraph

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 9:46 am

mimivan wrote:

tell him you are shomer negiah....

this guy is an older secular (I think- he DOES daven at young israel, so I dunno, but his wife wears the most cleavage bearing untznius dresses) british jew...
I don't think he's ever even heard of the term shomer negiya...

mimivan

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 9:53 am

then translate...

I'm sorry, even if I weren't religious, I just couldn't deal with some old guy touching me...he may be old, but I assume he still reads the papers...He still has his mind...right?

Seraph

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 10:21 am

mimivan wrote:

then translate...

I'm sorry, even if I weren't religious, I just couldn't deal with some old guy touching me...he may be old, but I assume he still reads the papers...He still has his mind...right?

"I dont touch males for religious reasons?" we ARE the same religion.

my husband thinks hes not all there, wouldnt understand, and to not make a scene.

mimivan

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 10:44 am

breslov wrote:

mimivan wrote:

then translate...

I'm sorry, even if I weren't religious, I just couldn't deal with some old guy touching me...he may be old, but I assume he still reads the papers...He still has his mind...right?

"I dont touch males for religious reasons?" we ARE the same religion.

my husband thinks hes not all there, wouldnt understand, and to not make a scene.

okay...I'd listen to your dh (shalom bayis is imp...) but if it bugged me, I'd ask a rav together...

b'h my dh is really machmir about it...some really old people who "didn't know better" tried to hug and kiss me at our chasunah but b'h...dh was on guard...

(thank G-d for the mechitza! Otherwise it would have been endless!)

flowerpower

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 10:46 am

last amother-u cant give yourself permission to shake hands bec some rabonim do it, I have never seen any of em do it but if u did im sure theres a reason for that and they must of been very isolated cases

Ruchel

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 10:53 am

sleepless-n-ny wrote:

You're right, she can't do it without talking to her rav.
But, many rabbis do shake hands. Including charedi.

amother

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 11:13 am

Ruchel wrote:

amother wrote:

Let this be my one wrongdoing (unforutnatley there are more...but hopefully of smaller calibre) t

interesting! did he say why it was ok?

Post-menopausal so no issue of nidda (which is the crux of negiah) and my husband didn't want to play the "I'm more religious than you" card because even though they would have accepted it, it would have left a bad taste in their mouths, which is not what you want when you are trying to integrate into a new family. So my husband asked, and was told it's ok.

Clarissa

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 11:19 am

I shake hands, kiss, hug and everything, but sometimes I find it easier to be around my husband's friends and family who don't. It alleviates the pressure of figuring out whether to kiss or not, it eliminates the germ issue, and it gives lots of personal space. I like personal space, which is why I enjoyed greeting people in Japan.

On the other hand, I am a physical person, and like to be able to touch an arm or shoulder when it feels appropriate. Years ago, when I was young and single, I used to walk around with a good friend and we'd hold hands, like little kids. I liked that.

So, outside of religious reasons, I have times when I like dealing with either world, in terms of shaking hands and touching.

amother

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 11:30 am

Ruchel wrote:

But I was told there is no issue of nidda (nowadays, with no temple) except with the husband?
Interesting to see all the differences!

There isn't a problem from a tuma/tahara perspective, but since you cannot have relations with a woman who is a nidda part of that is not touching a woman who is a nidda.

Ruchel

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 11:37 am

Clarissa wrote:

Years ago, when I was young and single, I used to walk around with a good friend and we'd hold hands, like little kids.

I used to do stuff like that with my mom. Until two old Flemish ladies called us lesbians.

Clarissa

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 11:54 am

Ruchel wrote:

Clarissa wrote:

Years ago, when I was young and single, I used to walk around with a good friend and we'd hold hands, like little kids.

I used to do stuff like that with my mom. Until two old Flemish ladies called us lesbians.

Cute. Well, you know how those old Flemish ladies are.*

This was a guy friend, but I do notice young women walking hand in hand or arm in arm. They're often European. I think it looks nice. I have a female friend who sometimes likes walking arm in arm. I guess people either assume we're European or lesbians. Or European lesbians.

(*Just kidding about above. I have no idea about old Flemish ladies. It just sounded so cute in your story)

NotInNJMommy

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 11:57 am

eek!

When I decided to "become" shomer negiah, I thought it wouldn't be so hard. I'm not so physical and huggy and etc...

I realized how often I tapped people on shoulders, etc.

Now that it's been about 5 yrs, I find I'm very sensitive to it.

For dh and me, it's a priority for us to behave this way bc we (and our rabbonim) think it's respectful to each other, ourselves, and others.

I didn't get a job once because of it, but in general, I've had fine experiences.

DH has a harder time because women get offended by a man not shaking more than the opposite seems to happen (bc they equate it with looking down on women). When dh explains he shows respect to his wife by not shaking, most women really appreciate that. It's all in the delivery though, if the tone is positive and there is a smile it's easier to get the "nice to meet you, but no thanks" across without offending anyone.

I'm not judging, just sharing some experiences.

justanothermother

Tue, Apr 15 2008, 12:13 pm

I am shomer negia
So leave me alone
If you must reach out and touch me
Use Bell telephone
Stay on your side of the line
For this body's exclusively mine.
Music