France Riots | Imamother

Tefila

Sun, Nov 06 2005, 10:20 am

A firefighter tries to put out a burning car on Sunday in Aulnay-sous-Bois, a northern surburb of Paris, on the tenth straight night of unrest following the electrocution deaths of two teens who believed they were being chased by police.

• France faces more violence
Nov. 5: Young protestors have expanded their attacks beyond the suburbs of Paris. NBC's Don Teague reports.

• Urban unrest
Nov. 5: Riots in France continue for the ninth day and the violence is spreading to more areas. NBC's Don Teague reports from Paris.
MSNBC

• Nights of unrest
rioting in Paris and its suburbs.

Updated: 7:05 a.m. ET Nov. 6, 2005
PARIS, France - Spreading urban unrest — with arson attacks on vehicles, nursery schools and other targets in France from the Mediterranean to the German border — for the first time reached central Paris, where police said Sunday that 28 cars were burned overnight.

Police made 186 arrests nationwide as the violence, in its 10th night, moved from poor suburbs into the capital, France's seat of power, and reached new intensity across the country.

The number of cars torched overnight — 1,295 across France — was the highest yet since the unrest began Oct 27, France-Info radio and other French media reported. Police did not immediately confirm the figure after earlier putting the number at 918.

The night before, 900 vehicles were burned throughout the country.

The count of overnight arson attacks, still incomplete, could rise further, police said, adding that it did not include shops, gymnasiums, nursery schools and other targets attacked by bands of youths.

On the Paris street where the three cars were set afire, residents spoke Sunday morning of hearing a loud explosion and then seeing flames shooting into the sky.

"We were very afraid," said Annie Partouche, 55, who had watched the cars burning from her apartment window and said she lined the window ledges with wet towels to keep dense smoke from getting in. "We were afraid to leave the building."

The three burned cars had been removed by Sunday morning, but the facade of a nearby building was blackened by soot. It was not immediately clear whether anything other than vehicles was targeted in Paris.

The violence began in a low-income suburb northeast of Paris after the deaths of two teenagers, of Mauritanian and Tunisian origin, accidentally electrocuted as they hid from police in a power substation. They apparently thought they were being chased.

WashPost: Riots are a fight for recognition

The unrest took a potentially alarming turn with reported attacks inside the well-guarded French capital. Police said three cars were damaged by fire from gasoline bombs in the Place de la Republique neighborhood, or 3rd district, northeast of City Hall and near the historic Marais district. The office in charge of roadways indicated the attacks on vehicles were spread out in districts on the northern and southern edges of Paris.

It was not immediately clear whether anything other than vehicles was targeted in Paris.

'A will to pillage'
The violence is forcing France to confront long-simmering anger in its suburbs, where many Africans and their French-born children live on society's margins, struggling with high unemployment, racial discrimination and despair — fertile terrain for crime of all sorts as well as for Muslim extremists offering frustrated youths a way out.

France, with some 5 million Muslims, has the largest Islamic population in western Europe.

The town of Evreux, 60 miles west of Paris, appeared hardest hit by marauding youths overnight, national police spokesman Patrick Hamon said. Arsonists there laid waste to at least 50 vehicles, shops and businesses at a shopping center, a post office and two schools, he said.

That the shopping center was partially burned shows "there is a will to pillage," Hamon said. "This has been true since the start." Five police officers and three firefighters were injured in clashes with youths, he said.

Some 2,300 police poured into the Paris region to bolster security on what had been expected to be a restive Saturday night.

For the second night in a row, a helicopter equipped with spotlights and video cameras to track bands of youths combed the poor, heavily immigrant Seine-Saint-Denis region, northeast of Paris, where the violence began and has been concentrated. Small teams of police were deployed to chase youths speeding from one attack to another in cars and on motorbikes.

Arson attacks also were reported to the north, south, east and west of Paris, often in unlikely places such as the cultural bastion of Avignon, southern France, and the resort cities of Nice and Cannes, a police officer said.

Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy warned that those convicted could face severe sentences for burning cars.

“Violence penalizes those who live in the toughest conditions,” he said after a government crisis meeting.

Attacks also were reported in Nantes, in the southwest, the Lille region in the north and Saint-Dizier, in the Ardennes region east of Paris. In the eastern city of Strasbourg, 18 cars were set alight in full daylight, police there said.

Dozens of vehicles, two gymnasiums and at least three classrooms were set afire in the Seine-Saint-Denis region, outside Paris, local officials said. France-Info radio reported residents catching two 14-year-olds trying to light a fire in Drancy, northeast of Paris, and turning them over to police.

Attacks random, uncoordinated
The national police spokesman blamed the spread of the arson attacks on "hoodlums" carrying out "copycat" acts. There appeared to be no coordination between groups in different areas, Hamon said. But within gangs, youths were communicating by cell phones or e-mails.

Even nursery schools have not been spared the fury of those igniting unrest.

Five classrooms of the Sleeping Beauty Nursery School in Grigny, in the Essonne region south of Paris, went up in flames late Saturday along with two classrooms of another school, police said. It was at least the third school set ablaze in several days. In Acheres, on the edge of the St. Germain forest west of Paris, arsonists torched a nursery school late Friday.

The anger has also spread to the Internet, with blogs mourning the youths.

Along with messages of condolence and appeals for calm were insults targeting police, threats of more violence and warnings that the unrest will feed support for France’s anti-immigration extreme right.

“Civil war is declared. There will no doubt be deaths. Unfortunately, we have to prepare,” said a posting signed “Rania.”

“We are going to destroy everything. Rest in peace, guys,” wrote “Saint Denis.”

Sarkozy — blamed for inflaming violence with tough talk and calling troublemakers "scum" — visited the hard-hit Essonne region early Sunday to "give police support," he said.

I hope this comes to an end soon since history has taught us this doesn't bode well for our people Sad

hardwrknmom

Sun, Nov 06 2005, 11:48 am

They should round up all those muslims and get them the heck out of france. But it wont happen. It's all a flashback of the germans walking into france and their hands were wide open. I wonder how the jews there are doing?

supermom

Sun, Nov 06 2005, 1:09 pm

the rebbe told the jews that they should get out of france a long long time ago what are they still doing there I don't know Rolling Eyes

1stimer

Sun, Nov 06 2005, 1:32 pm

It's easy to say get out of France, if you're not living there and you don't have your life there.

Tefila

Sun, Nov 06 2005, 1:35 pm

Super Rav Kaduri has urged everyone to come to Israel why we r all here I still don't know

supermom

Sun, Nov 06 2005, 1:51 pm

1stimer wrote:

It's easy to say get out of France, if you're not living there and you don't have your life there.

france has always been a very anti semite country. who would want to live in a place like that I have heard the most horror stories that they have done to jews. to pick up and move there now that I can't understand. I have known people that send there kids to school there for the year and why would people want to do that. even so when a person sees that a place is not a place to raise kids and somewhat safely a person usually moves out for the sake of their family. jmho.

supermom

Sun, Nov 06 2005, 1:53 pm

freilich wrote:

Super Rav Kaduri has urged everyone to come to Israel why we r all here I still don't know

I don't know either unless no one is taking him seriously or...... I have no clue but if we weren't so comfortable were we are than I am positivly sure that we would all run. as a matter of a fact I know a lot of jews that already imigrated to israel from france because of the horrible situation that is going on with the jews there. so it is the same with moshiach if we were so comfortable here in galus why would anyone want to cry out and scream from their depths of their heart for moshiach.

hardwrknmom

Sun, Nov 06 2005, 4:53 pm

supermom wrote:

the rebbe told the jews that they should get out of france a long long time ago what are they still doing there I don't know Rolling Eyes

as a matter of fact- france was one place the rebbe NEVER liked.

STRONGMOM

Sun, Nov 06 2005, 5:11 pm

Number one the rebbe never ever told jewish french people to leave france. Instead he sent his shluchim there and the whole place was transformed into a place full of jewish schools, restaurants, youth centers etc etc etc. The whole paris is full of shluchim and chabad houses ........

Now , when he was alive the Rebbe used to be 'mekarev' french people in a tremendous way, something we never saw with any other country (maybe russians a little bit) He was the one to transform the 'marseillaise' into a nigun, he was the one who was praising them and their work all the time, he was the one who even found a quality in the name of the country: TSARFAT. same word as PARASTA which has the same gematria as 770...and I can go on and on and on about it.
So please ladies, think about what you write first.

STRONGMOM

Sun, Nov 06 2005, 5:19 pm

one more thing: the riots are not against jews.

Tefila

Sun, Nov 06 2005, 5:30 pm

Quote:

one more thing: the riots are not against jews

SO FAR

hate to say this but it means trouble unless stopped and it's no use us burying our heads in the sand

hardwrknmom

Sun, Nov 06 2005, 7:12 pm

STRONGMOM wrote:

one more thing: the riots are not against jews.

Sorry to bust your bubble but mark my words- they will blame their rioting b/c of JEWS.

supermom

Mon, Nov 07 2005, 3:52 am

STRONGMOM wrote:

I have a couple of relatives that moved out of france because the rebbe told them that they should move out of france and tell other jews to get out before it gets worse.

STRONGMOM

Mon, Nov 07 2005, 4:23 am

in that case,why didnt the Rebbe ask his shluchim to move out???? why did he encourage people to go on shlichus to france?
maybe to a few individuals he advised to leave but obviously not for this reason only!

supermom

Mon, Nov 07 2005, 4:52 am

why are there shluchim then in chevron I once opened the the igros and it was talking to this guy and said to him he doesn't advise anyone to go to chevron because it is not safe but then again their are shluchim out there.

Pearl

Mon, Nov 07 2005, 5:46 am

Quote:

freilich wrote:

Quote:

one more thing: the riots are not against jews

SO FAR

hate to say this but it means trouble unless stopped and it's no use us burying our heads in the sand

I didn't read the news today yet, but in any case, it's a "protest" against the government... and it's spreading (or going to spread) to brussels (belgium) and other european countries. just a matter of time, this was going to happen sooner or later. the problems with the moslem populations in europe are endless......

and why not everybody gets up and leaves to live in israel? because life in israel is no picknick either... not everyone is able, capable etc, to leave whatever kind of established life and make aliyah.

sarahd

Mon, Nov 07 2005, 6:42 am

Pearl wrote:

and it's spreading (or going to spread) to brussels (belgium) and other european countries. just a matter of time, this was going to happen sooner or later. the problems with the moslem populations in europe are endless......

Are you worried, Pearl? Sad

You live in a country with a very large Arab and Muslim population. If I lived in Antwerp, I'd be very nervous, since the Arab neighborhood borders right on the Jewish area.[/list]

Pearl

Mon, Nov 07 2005, 6:46 am

I don't live in antwerp Wink

but yes, I am living in one of those countries with at least a million muslims....
there are plenty of problems here, but no riots yet. I say "yet" because I do think that's just a matter of time.
I am a little worried, but then again, I am also worried about the statistics in israel, where jews very soon will be outnumbered by arabs...
Crying

all in all, we live in a very difficult time. and europe is slowly waking up to reality

en0ra

Mon, Nov 07 2005, 8:30 am

Hello everyone,

I was asked to participate in this forum precisely concerning the riots happening in France.

I live in Paris and after reading the international press and having 100 american friends call or email me to ask of I was ok... I have to say "NOTHING IS HAPPENING IN PARIS PEOPLE!!!!!!!!" lol.
Yes we've had a few cars burned in paris, one supposedly in my area. Didn't see a thing, didn't hear a thing... don't feel anything is different when I go out to get my "baguette bread" (btw all official "baguette" is kosher in france... just in case you're here...and starving).
These riots are happening in the boonies, in towns essentially composed of projects. Where cops haven't set foot for ages, and when they do it's because they're blackmailing underage harlots and dealers. The problems are huge and are NOT exclusively "muslim".
To be honest, most of the rioters are not religious. They just scream "allah wakbah" because they've seen it on TV (which is pro arab)
The paradox of the french is they LOVE ARABS when they live in their own countries but they're racist against arabs in france.
So you get these kids , in a french no mans land , give them zilch and humiliate them then show them hours and hours of pro-arab anti-american anti-israeli tv and let them loose.
It's like kicking pitbulls before a fight to get the adrenaline running.

These kids aren't religious , like I said but the vacuum they're living in is the perfect soil for fundamentalists to start their "social work". It will be happening more and more unless the french decide to do something.
This problem has nothing to do with immigration now, being these kids are born in france and are french.

The 2nd point I'd like to address:

I'm under the impression, after reading some posts here, that some people think we're (jews) in grave immediate danger in France and that just the fact of raising our kids here make us irresponsible.
There is a HUGE difference between what is going on and how it is portrayed in the American media.
Statistically this year, france has had less antisemite agressions then the U.K. but somehow it's not so big in the press.
All of europe has felt a rise (though this yeaer, it's lowered compared to the last 5 yrs).
Belgium wins the prize!

I, personally have never had a single problem as a jew... oh wait yes, I had ONE and that was with a person who was 100% french blue blood... not muslim lol.
I live in an area that has quite a few muslims... we have a shul every 200 meters lol.
Shabbat, all you see are kippot and djellabas lol and I've never felt I was in danger.
My husband and I walk home shabbat night through a densely arab populated area of paris and B"H, even when we're tipsy from the shabbat wine, we make it home NO PROBLEM.

Maybe its us jews from morocco and tunisia, we're USED to arabs (doesn't mean we're best friends), but really us N.African jews and arabs have more in common with each other , then with the french. More often then not, we actually do get along. Or maybe we just are too "north african" looking for them to really see us as the enemy lol, I dunno.

Frances jewish community is the 3rd largest in the world. Like I said above, in some areas there's a shul avery 200m! If we were so unhappy here, we wouldn't have the thriving community we have.
I feel as safe in paris as I do in NY.
The difference between NY and paris reside in the "HOW LONG before something serious really happens". For Paris, you can't be sure of the next 10 yrs but for NY you know you have minimum 30yrs lol...maybe more, but I can't tell the future hehe.

Either way, it is an illusion to feel 100% safe as a jew ANYWHERE else then in Israel. It's the reality of being a jew in galut.

So anyways, just to say that us Jews here in France are not living lives of terror nor even close to anything like it. Our children are in no more danger then yours , anywhere in galut. There is no jewish school here now that does not get police surveillance and security to be on the safe side.
So for those who think we should be leaving else be labled irresponsible, walk a mile in our shoes and you'll see these little french boots aren't so uncomfy even if they're not AS comfy as "nikes". (get the american winky there? lol)

I've already been confronted with the argument "you french jews are like the german jews of the times... you wouldn't admit it!".
I'll say this much right away to avoid ANY hint to such a comment. Comparing the two BANALIZES and downsizes what happened in germany and that in itself is dangerous enough to avoid doing it. The day my rights are being jeopordized and I'm telling you "no no, we're safe" THEN you can tell us were irresponsible and running away from the truth.
My rights as a french citizen are not being questioned We can press charges for xenophobia (and most likely win in court) if confronted with it. We can get police surveillance of our shuls easily. We are not 2nd class citizens like the Jews were before the war when they were slowly stripped one by one of their rights.

gryp

Mon, Nov 07 2005, 8:54 am

thanx for the update, and welcome to Imamother.
what are djellabas?