Tsniyus, child abuse, burkas and NORMALCY - Rosenblum

amother

Sun, May 11 2008, 10:02 pm

amother wrote:

I get the feeling from most of the posts in this thread that all or most BTs feel lesser that a FFB. Why is that?
I was married to a man from a very choshuva family in a large town and he was close to his father and siblings and uncles... and so on. Most of his uncles and sibling/sibling-in-laws are very choshuv people in the community. They are friends and rub enbows with the big recignised rabbonim in town and they themselves are Rabbonim for variety of beis medresh, Rosh kollel and so on... If I tell you what my married name was lots of you readers would be shocked to hear what I'm about to say. The Rebbetzin would kiss me on the cheek every time I saw her and I could go on and on...
I know from first hand experience that it's (with all due respect) bs!!! My then husband was so abusive, in so many ways, he was verbally, emotionally and s@xually extreemly and brutally abusive. He never hit me and would pride himself for being such a fantastic husband cuz he "never raised his hands" at me. During the time I was married and part of his family I heard so many first hand things that made me loose respect for all the "higher" and "better" people in the community. I could write a book and have proof to it all that would put the entire community in chaos because nearly everyone in the community respects them to no end and it would be a huge shock to everyone if they learn that it's all bogus.
Anyways, enough going on about this, the point is that in way more cases the BT are better people than the FFB (and I'm a FFB and still saying it). It's not a rule but you should see what they would tell my kids to scare them from doing anything wrong. My kid would have nightmares just from the things they tell her to scare her. They made her feel like hashem was mean and punishes for breathing. I had to explain the to that hashem is loving and kind...
To all you BT, hold your chin up. You know that in hashems eyes you are far better than the people who do it all perfectly (out of habit) because that what they were trained to do from birth. You had to fight to get to were you are!

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences amother...yet I know plenty of people who are married to abusive BTs, so I don't think that proves anything...

Raizle

Mon, May 12 2008, 1:18 am

ChossidMom that saying is intended as praise for a BT, it's not intended to put down a tzaddik or FFB.
It also doesn't say that BTs are better, but that they have an advantage in that they have achieved something an FFB cannot achieve. In that sense a tzaddik cannot stand in their place.

It's like the story of the man who came to the Rebbe, who was becoming frum in all other respects but confessed to the Rebbe that he could not give up his non-jewish fiance. The Rebbe's response was "I'm jealous of you" then in response to the man's shocked expression the Rebbe explained that he will never have this yetzer hora that the man has and so will never have the opportunity to overcome it.

HooRYou

Mon, May 12 2008, 2:20 am

ChossidMom wrote:

Motek wrote:

A sorry story but I don't think this is warranted:

amother wrote:

in way more cases the BT are better people than the FFB (

What is the point in saying who is better than who? Confused

Excuse me, but doesn't it say somewhere (and I'm sure someone will tell me where Wink

) that in the place a BT stands a Tsaddik can't stand?

I am not sure what the source is, but Rov Dessler speaks about it and if I understood it correctly it has to do with revealing Hashem in the world. Everything in creation was created to reveal Hashem in the world. A person who lives a non-torah life and then takes on the mitzvos is doing an incredible amount of revealing Hashem in the world, more so than even a tzaddik doing his daily avodah since the BT's life change is so public whereas the tzadik's avodah could be alrgely in areas such as middos, kavannah or machshava (judging favorably and the like) and therefore private. It doesn't mean that the BT is on a higher level, but that he has fulfilled the tafkid of revealing Hashem in a better way.

mali

Mon, May 12 2008, 5:46 am

As far as Avoda is concerned, FFBs are no different than BTs. None of us are Tzaddikim, and until we reach that level, we are constantly battling with the Yetzer Hara and (hopefully) improving.

Thus, technically, "b'makom sh'baalei teshuvah omdim" applies to most of us.

When I was released from the hospital after a d&c, the not-frum nurse who was removing my iv told me, "I can tell you're FFB". I told her that I hope she means that in a positive sense. She said, "Oh, of course! I was watching the way you were interacting with the nurses and doctors, and then the way you and your husband talked as you were waiting here, and all I can say is that you have a certain normalcy that BTs are lacking". I told her that I guess that when you're born Frum, your overall behavior is natural, whereas a BT might always have the insecurity that she's doing something wrong. It's not that FFBs are more normal, it's that we're not as cautious and not as conscious of our actions.