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Spending money when others are in need
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Atali




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 15 2008, 9:02 pm
Clarissa wrote:
That wasn't my original point, but it's come up because of the posts in which people said that the problem with conspicuous consumption in certain areas is that it'll increase social pressure to follow. So everyone will think they need to spend more money.

My original point has been stated a whole bunch of times. If you're telling someone that they're wrong to spend $150 on a bag but you're comfortable with having spent a lot on your home, your jewelry or your car, you're being hypocritical. I spend how I want to, you spend how you want to. Even if one's in-laws gave one a ring (I keep hearing that one), one can certainly say to one's in-laws, "that's not what I'm about, why don't we give the money to a good cause?"

I have all sorts of opinions about stupid spending, and I do judge. But I'm not going to start insisting that people pass on their handbag and give to charity until I divest myself of my possessions and move to that Buddhist monastery that keeps sending me those purty brochures.


If I had said that to my mother in law, she would think that I had come from another planet, and probably wouldn't have agreed anyway.
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cassandra




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 15 2008, 9:06 pm
My husband comes from a more Brooklyny background, and apparently the minhag is to buy the kallah a gold and diamond watch. So on Chanukah during my engagement my now husband presented me with this watch. I looked at it, asked him why in the world he was giving it to me, and told him I didn't really want it (I knew it was from his parents so it had no sentimental value attached to it at all for me.) My mother told me I was being disgusting and my husband had no idea what to make of the whole thing. So I kept it, thanked his parents, but I never really wear it.
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chaylizi




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 15 2008, 9:09 pm
hello an ad just popped up on my screen that has the solution:

Rent Authentic Handbags: for as low as $6/week

www.bagborroworsteal.com
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cassandra




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 15 2008, 9:11 pm
It's pretty expensive actually.
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chaylizi




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 15 2008, 9:14 pm
but then you can rent it for an occasion. rent a bag for a wedding and then return it without spending the money. anyway I thought it was funny, ok
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flowerpower




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 15 2008, 9:43 pm
How about this-mil bought her 17 month old a shabbos robe for $110 bucks. she also owns 6 pairs of shoes already. She had three winter coats this winter. As I said fil is generous so his wife can enjoy some of the $ too.
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chaylizi




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 15 2008, 9:45 pm
sleepless-n-ny wrote:
How about this-mil bought her 17 month old a shabbos robe for $110 bucks. she also owns 6 pairs of shoes already. She had three winter coats this winter. As I said fil is generous so his wife can enjoy some of the $ too.


I didn't buy myself a maternity robe b/c I would only use it for about 9 months all together. & I would've gotten my money's worth this year. $110- it will fit her kid for like 5 minutes!!!
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grin




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 16 2008, 12:09 am
momof6 wrote:
Maybe you actually need to be little more materialistic, then you would be be motivated to clean the material objects in your house.

I'll admit, I haven't finished reading all the posts (my, how it exploded since yesterday!), but this is what I meant by "what's wrong with diamonds".
Hashem put all this luxury into this world for a purpose - to help us be oived Hashem better, not for the non jews's use and ta'avos!
We should appreciate all the things we're zoiche to own, all the materiality that we have, to have harchavas hada'as and to be all the more thankful to Him constantly. (I still bless Him daily for my washing machine!)
If you'll have more harchavsas had'adas from giving tzedaka, so that's wonderful. But treat yourself as well, maybe in small ways.
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Beauty and the Beast




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 16 2008, 2:30 am
gosh, it took long to read this thread!

It all boils down to taste, personality, and preference.
As we have seen here, there are some who value household items, and others value clothing and such.

If I like to look good when I am dressed, do I have to worry about others who may feel frumpy when they see me? I don't see the difference with buying yourself a nice bag. People have to know what they can afford.

( I have a toootally different opinion on people who cannot pay thier rent, yet they max out on certain things JUST so they can make people's eyes pop on the streeets....)

hmm, it may sound contradictory, but that is how I feel.
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grin




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 16 2008, 5:03 am
Beauty and the Beast wrote:
gosh, it took long to read this thread!

It all boils down to taste, personality, and preference.
As we have seen here, there are some who value household items, and others value clothing and such.

If I like to look good when I am dressed, do I have to worry about others who may feel frumpy when they see me? I don't see the difference with buying yourself a nice bag. People have to know what they can afford.

( I have a toootally different opinion on people who cannot pay thier rent, yet they max out on certain things JUST so they can make people's eyes pop on the streeets....)

hmm, it may sound contradictory, but that is how I feel.

it doesn't sound contradictory at all to me and I agree with everyhting you said.
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louche




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 16 2008, 9:44 am
grin wrote:
Hashem put all this luxury into this world for a purpose - to help us be oived Hashem better, not for the non jews's use and ta'avos!
.


You mean only the Chosen People should enjoy G-d's world? And nonjews should....what? Live underground in caves?

Why do I have a problem with this idea?
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grin




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 16 2008, 9:53 am
The gemara says that gold was created for the Beis Hamikdosh. I was just expounding on that theme. Yes, the Chosen Poeple are the ones the whole wrold was created for - for avodas Hashem. So anything that furthers that purpose is valid.
non jews benefit also from the world's creation, with all it contains, but it's mainly for our benefit, not theirs.

Your problem with that is growing up in the States, we become super-sensitized to "racism" with all it entails. The difference is that, altho our superiority is also inborn, in that we have a neshama elokis that the non jews lack, it is also demanding (613 vs. 7).
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louche




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 16 2008, 10:01 am
grin wrote:


Your problem with that is growing up in the States, we become super-sensitized to "racism" with all it entails.


No, I am super-sensitized to arrogance and all that it entails.

The nations of the world are still G-d's children, not His stepchildren. They're still made in His image. Being His favorite children doesn't give us the right to speak of His other children with contempt. To say "this was created for me to accomplish XYZ" is fine; It's not necessary to say "this was created for me to accomplish XYZ and not to satisfy your depraved lusts."
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grin




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 16 2008, 10:04 am
suit yourself. I would call it Jewish pride, not arrogacne.
I imagine you consdier me arrogant and rude, but I prefer being prideful to feeling the need to hide my Jewishness, as I was brought up to do.

bli neder, over Shabbos I'll try to find some soucres.


Last edited by grin on Fri, May 16 2008, 10:10 am; edited 2 times in total
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chocolate moose




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 16 2008, 10:04 am
sleepless-n-ny wrote:
How about this-mil bought her 17 month old a shabbos robe for $110 bucks. she also owns 6 pairs of shoes already. She had three winter coats this winter. As I said fil is generous so his wife can enjoy some of the $ too.


What does that mean? Don't they have an equal say in how to spend?
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louche




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 16 2008, 10:21 am
grin wrote:
suit yourself. I would call it Jewish pride, not arrogacne.


throwing your pride in people's faces is arrogance. saying "I'm great and you're dirt" is arrogance.

Pride is internal. Pride makes you walk tall and straight. Pride makes you do the right thing because anything else would be unworthy of you. Pride makes you appreciate who and what you are. Pride lets you treat others with respect because you have confidence in your own worth. Pride doesn't have to blow its own horn because pride's value is clear as day.

Arrogance is external. Arrogance makes you swagger. Arrogance lets you do the wrong thing because you recognize no limits. Arrogance builds itself up by tearing everthing else down. Arrogance makes you treat others with contempt because acknowledging anyone else's worth threatens your own. Arrogance has to constantly blow its own horn because it knows no one else will.
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grin




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 16 2008, 10:25 am
I think that the Jewish women on this forum should feel entirely justified to wear their diamond rings, etc. with no qualms. I cerntainly am not telling non jews not to buy or wear them, but I think awareness of our place in the world is pride and not arrogance.
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 16 2008, 10:29 am
grin wrote:
I think that the Jewish women on this forum should feel entirely justified to wear their diamond rings, etc. with no qualms. I cerntainly am not telling non jews not to buy or wear them, but I think awareness of our place in the world is pride and not arrogance.
I'm not going to get into the diamond ring issue, because the discussion of wearing them doesn't relate to my original point AT ALL (please read my posts if you want to make it appear that you're responding to them in any way) but I will say that our place in the world is something we're given but must also earn. Does being Jewish make us feel special? Sure. But must we earn a good place in the world by what we learn, what we do, how we treat others and what we aspire to be? Yes. Being born Jewish is just an accident of which two people had intercourse to produce us or, in the case of converts, the effort they made to make who they really are a reality. Having a Jewish soul is a wonderful gift. What we do with this soul earns us a place in the world. Walking around as if we're special means nothing if we don't back it up with our thoughts and actions.

Walking around all bedecked in diamonds or driving a Lexus are meaningless. Anybody can do that and it doesn't have any correlation to whether they're special in any way.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 16 2008, 10:43 am
chaylizi wrote:
hello an ad just popped up on my screen that has the solution:

Rent Authentic Handbags: for as low as $6/week

www.bagborroworsteal.com

... anyway I thought it was funny.


Nervous it is FUNny Rolling Laughter
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grin




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 16 2008, 10:48 am
Clarissa wrote:
grin wrote:
I think that the Jewish women on this forum should feel entirely justified to wear their diamond rings, etc. with no qualms. I cerntainly am not telling non jews not to buy or wear them, but I think awareness of our place in the world is pride and not arrogance.
I'm not going to get into the diamond ring issue, because the discussion of wearing them doesn't relate to my original point AT ALL (please read my posts if you want to make it appear that you're responding to them in any way) but I will say that our place in the world is something we're given but must also earn. Does being Jewish make us feel special? Sure. But must we earn a good place in the world by what we learn, what we do, how we treat others and what we aspire to be? Yes. Being born Jewish is just an accident of which two people had intercourse to produce us or, in the case of converts, the effort they made to make who they really are a reality. Having a Jewish soul is a wonderful gift. What we do with this soul earns us a place in the world. Walking around as if we're special means nothing if we don't back it up with our thoughts and actions.

true.
Clarissa wrote:
Walking around all bedecked in diamonds or driving a Lexus are meaningless. Anybody can do that and it doesn't have any correlation to whether they're special in any way.

I thoguht the discussion had to do with allowing oneself luxuries that you can well afford and appreicate in lieu of giving more tzedaka. If diamonds and a Lexus will help your avodas Hashem - davening and learning better and with more harchava, or giving restful rides to rabanim, or feeling more oneg Shabbos, then buying and using them is fulfilling their purpose in this world.
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