Author Naomi Ragen

technic

Thu, Nov 17 2005, 2:34 pm

nope - I cant remember who did...and I cant remember where I put the copy I wanted 2 read but cant find either Sad

..ah I think the author is anita diamant? not sure tho....

chen

Thu, Nov 17 2005, 2:34 pm

Rivk wrote:

What about "The Red Tent". Did she write that too?

no, that was anita diamant.

Motek

Thu, Nov 17 2005, 2:36 pm

Rivk wrote:

What about "The Red Tent". Did she write that too?

no

I was once in Eichler's and came across that book. Horrified to read made-up dialogue not based on the Medrash and commentaries but on the author's imagination, and ugly descriptions of our Avos and Imahos. Wrote a letter to Eichler's. No response. Confused

technic

Thu, Nov 17 2005, 2:36 pm

I promise I didnt peek - we posted at exactly the same time LOL

avigayil

Thu, Nov 17 2005, 6:30 pm

When I was first converting, many of my non-religious Jewish friends used Naomi Ragens books as 'proof' why I should not become frum.
'Sacrifice of Tamar' hit me the most.

In the Catholic neighborhhod I was raised, there were 'problem priests'. Many boys were abused and then shunned if any allegations came forward. 1 of my old classmates committed suicide at the age of 20 or 21 and I always attributed it to that.

Naomi Ragen certainly has an ax to grind. I wish she could get her point across in a slightly smoother manner.

chavamom

Thu, Nov 17 2005, 6:51 pm

I was trying to find an interview that I had read a long time ago and found this in stead. It gives you a picture of her outlook. And this about a play that she has written. Definately an axe to grind.

avigayil

Thu, Nov 17 2005, 8:09 pm

Perhaps if these situations Naomi Ragen based her books on never happened or were dealt with properly in the first place, she would not have the fuel for her fire.

chavamom

Thu, Nov 17 2005, 8:40 pm

I think there is a difference between acknowledging that things happen (like that abuse does exist in the frum community) and making things seem 'normative'.

imaamy

Thu, Nov 17 2005, 9:09 pm

http://naomiragen.com/

This site gives a lot of information

sarahd

Sat, Nov 19 2005, 11:40 am

It's lovely to say that one writes such books as a cri de coeur about the horrible things that go on in the chareidi community, but a bit strange to do so in a forum (I.e. secular romances) which will not be seen by anyone who could do something about them, isn't it? As far as I can tell, NR writes her books in order to give chareidim a bad image amongst the secular/non-Jews.

I have never read any of her books, Motek, but I saw a couple of them in the library, read the blurb and decided that I don't need to enrage myself by reading biased books written by someone who hates me. I also read a couple of Ragen's columns in the Jerusalem Post, so I have a pretty good idea of what she's about.

I recommend a column written not long ago by Wendy Shalit about how the charedi world is portrayed in fiction and why (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f.....C8B63) and Shalit's response to her critics: http://www.jewishworldreview.c......php3

tzipp

Sat, Nov 19 2005, 3:28 pm

I havn't read the books, so I can't comment, but maybe try reading some books by Rochelle Krich. She does adress real issues but doesn't have a negative attitude towards religious Jews. I really enjoy her books- "Blues in the Night" is the first in her Molly Blume series. Has anyone else read her books? What did you think? (She has a website- RochelleKrich.com)

Rivka

Sat, Nov 19 2005, 4:01 pm

I happened to read a Naomi Raegan book coz I found it in sem along with another book that was really innapropriate and I read the sacrifice of Tamar.
This is what I have to say about Naomi Raegan.
All her books seem to have the same theme (the similarity with Danielle Steele) I would say she probably had a bad childhood or something to do with Charedi Judaism, otherwise why would it sound so venomous when you read it.

There is one thing to write about certain things, but she seemed to talk about mikvah like it was something dirty and embarassing. I don't doubt that some frum people are very narrowminded, but all of them to be like that???

I didn't like the book, interesting story line, but it was written all wrong and she puts too much of her own emotion in it and it seems it is spiteful and angry and maybe if she learnt how to control her emotions and maybe seek counselling, I am sure her stories would be slightly better and maybe have a broader spectrum.

chavamom

Sat, Nov 19 2005, 5:46 pm

Rivka wrote:

I would say she probably had a bad childhood or something to do with Charedi Judaism, otherwise why would it sound so venomous when you read it.

One of the links on her website has an interview in which she says when she moved to Israel she attempted to fit in with charedi society and they "rejected her". I suspect that is the impetus for much of her anger.

daisy

Sat, Nov 19 2005, 7:09 pm

I agree that she definitely has an axe to grind in her first 3 books, though I'll admit they do make interesting reading and have parts that are thought provoking. *spoiler here* don't read further if you don't want to know too much...they all had a similar theme in that the main character ended up (don't like it, but for lack of a better term) "more modern orthodox" probably not unlike her own experience.

Her last 3 books do not really deal with the abusive charedi theme. I didn't get into 2 of them, but her most recent, "The Covenant" was a (sad, but) good read and dealt with the subject of terrorists in Israel.

Quote:

I haven't read the books, so I can't comment, but maybe try reading some books by Rochelle Krich. She does adress real issues but doesn't have a negative attitude towards religious Jews. I really enjoy her books- "Blues in the Night" is the first in her Molly Blume series. Has anyone else read her books? What did you think? (She has a website- RochelleKrich.com)

I also really enjoy her books and recommend them as well. I just read "Now You See Me" a few days ago. It deals with (frum) teenagers and internet chat rooms.
I agree that she is more positive toward frum people.

hindyandrafi

Sun, Nov 20 2005, 8:03 am

Im in the middle of reading The Covenant by Naomi Ragan and Im enjoying it.. I loved her other books too... I take them with a pinch of salt.. Theyre good reads!!

JRKmommy

Fri, Aug 18 2006, 8:48 am

I'm a Naomi Ragen fan - although, as with anything else, details need to be taken with a pinch of salt (as with any work of fiction).

I don't think there's anything objectionable about "The Covenant". It attacks the moral hyprocricy in the liberal world concerning terrorism in Israel. She lives in Israel and was actually having her family's Passover seder in the hotel in Netanya that was attacked by a suicide bomber. She and her family escaped with only a cut, but she writes about witnessing the horror in an article on her website.

The Ghost of Hannah Mendes is a historical novel based upon the life of Dona Gracia Nasi, a Marrano who became an extremely wealthy young widow and used her riches to save Jews. Interesting, but not controversial at all.

The books which get more attention and controversy are Jephte's Daughter, The Sacrific of Tamar and Sotah.

I don't think that any of the reviews posted so far really give a totally accurate flavor of these books. You pretty much have to read them for yourself to decide. The best way to describe them would be to imagine a merger between modern paperback fiction and a Modern Orthodox/Dati Leumi/Orthodox feminist political lecture.

There is criticism of aspects of the Charedi world - but it's a nuanced criticism, focusing largely extremism, abuse, corruption, and hypocricy. The typical villian would be someone who presents to the world as being charedi, while having distain for Hashem in his heart and secretly doing all sorts of nasty stuff. By contrast, she writes positively of Charedi characters who have true yiras shamayim and ahavas yisrael. There is a Chassidic rebbe in The Sacrifice of Tamar who is portrayed in a very positive light. She also writes with real affection for simple, religious families with love for each other and Hashem. So, it's not a blanket distain for Orthodoxy, but more of an attempt to critisize problemic elements. One of her general themes as well, in both the novels and the website, is her objection to "silence" and the "what's not nice, we don't show" mentality. [At the same time, though, she shows some real sympathy for how trauma like the Holocaust may have fostered this attitude in some.] Some of the things that she criticizes in her books have also been repeatedly criticized on this site - she just makes the criticism in a more public way (although it bears mentioning that there is a lot on this site, even on the publically-accessible boards, that could be seen by others). She's not a huge fan of conformity for its own sake. If you read her website, it says that she grew up poor and often felt ostracized. She became a BT and at one point did live among the Charedi community. That wasn't a perfect fit either, and she's basically in the MO/dati leumi category now, but she largely defines herself without fitting easily into categories.

She's also a very staunch Zionist and strongly rejects any attempts to demonize settlers. Some of her most sympathic characters are settlers. This puts her at odds with the left in the secular world.

By the same token, she also criticizes many elements in the secular world. It's presented as initially tempting but often empty. Frum characters who try to simply escape to the secular world ultimately encounter problems and don't find real satisfaction. For example, there is one scene in Sotah where Dina is horrified to see the children in the secular Jewish house watching Batman on TV. The mother initially thinks that Dina is a fanatic and wonders what the big deal is, and then sits down by herself to watch it and realizes, for a new perspective, just how utterly violent it is.

Take a look at the website, start with the first two books I mentioned, and then, if you are ready, consider the last three.

chen

Fri, Aug 18 2006, 9:11 am

stem wrote:

I read the book. As far as I remember she never actually did the act of adultery...

Correct. She is actually the target of adulterous plans by a married man who deliberately preys on her naivete and ignorance. OK, I'm wrecking the ending for you, but she doesn't go through with it. That's why the book is called "Sotah," not "Noefes", get it? A Sotoh is a woman whose husband suspects her of infidelity. in this case even that is a misnomer b/c in the book, her husband is the only one who believes in her innocence. (Whatta guy! Ya gotta love him!)

chen

Fri, Aug 18 2006, 9:16 am

tzipp wrote:

I like her books but feel the profanity is unnecessary. Yes, I know all about local color and accurately reflecting the truth, but just because cops and criminals curse a blue streak doesn't mean the dialog has to be in living color.

happy2beme

Fri, Aug 18 2006, 9:30 am

Quote:

curse a blue streak

I've heard this used b4. what does it mean? thx

Hashem_Yaazor

Fri, Aug 18 2006, 9:39 am

hindyandrafi wrote:

Im in the middle of reading The Covenant by Naomi Ragan and Im enjoying it.. I loved her other books too... I take them with a pinch of salt.. Theyre good reads!!

The Convenant is not as bad as the others. I thought that was a good book, and not much to complain about.