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Author Naomi Ragen
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 6:45 am
November wrote:
Sanguine, I agree with your assessment of these different books, although I haven't read the latest ones so I can't say about those. I used to read N Ragen books because they are so enticing but it's real a guilty pleasure and I often felt yucky afterwards. I encourage you to put down Jephte's Daughter, especially given that it is Elul. In my humble opinion it would be a good exercise for your yetzer to overcome the urge to finish it. Better you should read something that draws you closer to Hashem and to His people. B'hatzlacha!
Her books I assume are exaggerated, but to tell you the truth, Imamother has opened a world of Chareidi problems to me too. They're real problems, not exaggerated, but I guess I should always consider that the people who write on forums are the small %age that have a problem. No one posts when life is great. But when ladies write about how sweet her DH was when they were dating and now he's not, I often feel like screaming "YOU SHOULD HAVE GONE ON MORE THAN HALF A DOZEN DATES!!". Or "YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN MARRIED RIGHT OUT OF HS!!" .

So maybe I can read NR who I'm sure embellishes real life and I should stop reading real life problems on Imamaother Wink
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 7:12 am
I read her latest book, The Sisters Weiss and I really liked it. It was different than her first books. I also liked the Covenant. The Saturday Wife was completely stupid, no other way to put it.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 7:18 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
I read her latest book, The Sisters Weiss and I really liked it. It was different than her first books. I also liked the Covenant. The Saturday Wife was completely stupid, no other way to put it.
Right it's The Saturday Wife (I called it the Rabbi's wife - same review) - We agree on that one.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 10:54 am
Sanguine wrote:
This is a very old thread but I saw no point in starting a new one and I wanted to talk Naomi Ragen. Years ago I read Sotah and Sacrifice of Tamar. She's a great writer, can't put down her books even though their not my usual style of reading (I like books where they kill someone on the first page). But her books really bothered my - such chareidi bashing. This was in a book that anyone can buy. Maybe didn't believe things are really like that. Maybe they are (I'm not Chareidi) but it was strange for me to read a book like that and she annoyed me.



Let me know when you start a thread geared to your usual tastes.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 11:15 am
PinkFridge wrote:
Let me know when you start a thread geared to your usual tastes.

There's a problem - all the good books always involve one chapter with s@x - The two detectives, the detective and the victim's relative... Always, like they think no one will buy the books with out it. Can't discuss those books here Wink
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 11:21 am
Sanguine wrote:
There's a problem - all the good books always involve one chapter with s@x - The two detectives, the detective and the victim's relative... Always, like they think no one will buy the books with out it. Can't discuss those books here Wink


I get it Wink
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 11:29 am
1. Wow, people REALLY don't get satire. The Saturday Wife was her best book, where she grew as an author and went from "agenda" to literature as an art. I can't believe this even needs to be said. Maybe literature is something that needs to be studied to be understood, like economics or engineering? "Didn't have a proper ending" -- if neatly tied up endings is what you go for maybe you should stick to frum fiction.

2. She's been writing for decades, published multiple novels and hundreds of articles and columns, yet on here she's known as a "chareidi basher" because of her FIRST three novels. Riiight... if we judged Nabokov by his first three novels he also wouldn't seem like such a genius.

3. The Covenant was beautiful. The Tenth Song was all right. I haven't read Chains Around the Grass or The Sisters Weiss yet.

4. I follow her on facebook. She is a passionate advocate for the Jewish state. Her columns and articles are FIERCELY pro-Israel, and frankly I'm more concerned about Israel's survival than whether a bunch of people who don't get literature have their feelings hurt.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 11:54 am
sequoia wrote:
1. Wow, people REALLY don't get satire. The Saturday Wife was her best book, where she grew as an author and went from "agenda" to literature as an art. I can't believe this even needs to be said. Maybe literature is something that needs to be studied to be understood, like economics or engineering? "Didn't have a proper ending" -- if neatly tied up endings is what you go for maybe you should stick to frum fiction.

2. She's been writing for decades, published multiple novels and hundreds of articles and columns, yet on here she's known as a "chareidi basher" because of her FIRST three novels. Riiight... if we judged Nabokov by his first three novels he also wouldn't seem like such a genius.

3. The Covenant was beautiful. The Tenth Song was all right. I haven't read Chains Around the Grass or The Sisters Weiss yet.

4. I follow her on facebook. She is a passionate advocate for the Jewish state. Her columns and articles are FIERCELY pro-Israel, and frankly I'm more concerned about Israel's survival than whether a bunch of people who don't get literature have their feelings hurt.

I don't "get literature" (I majored in computers not English. I always loved math and just managed to pass English). I think NR is a great writer cause I enjoy her books and can't put them down even though they're not my type of book and even when I don't agree with her message. I'm not out to "get literature", so what! Either I enjoy a book or I don't. I read for relaxation. She doesn't hurt my feelings, but maybe you don't mean me.

I still think Saturday Wife was a stupid book and I didn't really care how it ended. Because it was a stupid book I didn't want to analyze it and think of endings. It just should have ended. (I hope she didn't do that to leave it open to a sequel)
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 12:04 pm
Sanguine wrote:


I still think Saturday Wife was a stupid book and I didn't really care how it ended. Because it was a stupid book I didn't want to analyze it and think of endings. It just should have ended. (I hope she didn't do that to leave it open to a sequel)


No. She did that because it was the only possible way for it to end. Like Nabokov's Pnin or Akunin's The Ninth Savior. Novels have their own internal logic.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 12:12 pm
sequoia wrote:
No. She did that because it was the only possible way for it to end. Like Nabokov's Pnin or Akunin's The Ninth Savior. Novels have their own internal logic.
You realize that I don't read those books. I mainly read detective books. The end is always surprising but I'm the one surprised.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 12:20 pm
sequoia wrote:
1. Wow, people REALLY don't get satire. The Saturday Wife was her best book, where she grew as an author and went from "agenda" to literature as an art. I can't believe this even needs to be said. Maybe literature is something that needs to be studied to be understood, like economics or engineering? "Didn't have a proper ending" -- if neatly tied up endings is what you go for maybe you should stick to frum fiction.

2. She's been writing for decades, published multiple novels and hundreds of articles and columns, yet on here she's known as a "chareidi basher" because of her FIRST three novels. Riiight... if we judged Nabokov by his first three novels he also wouldn't seem like such a genius.

3. The Covenant was beautiful. The Tenth Song was all right. I haven't read Chains Around the Grass or The Sisters Weiss yet.

4. I follow her on facebook. She is a passionate advocate for the Jewish state. Her columns and articles are FIERCELY pro-Israel, and frankly I'm more concerned about Israel's survival than whether a bunch of people who don't get literature have their feelings hurt.


I understand the role of literature as art. I understand the role of literature as commentary. I understand satire. Not all satire is well done. IMNSHO, The Saturday Wife was not well done at all.
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leah233




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 12:22 pm
I've read some of NR's books.I've also read some the Yiddish novels that the Haskalah movement were openly using to attack Orthodox Judaism.I would say the latter were actually less hostile and certainly more objective and nuanced then the former.(Few of those Yiddish novels would even make sense today)
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Imogen




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 12:27 pm
The Saturday Wife was a quick but unsatisfying read for me, great concept and promising start but the end disappointed me. Nonethless she writes about about things that touch a chord for many of us, I still get a kick of reading a book with orthodox characters and scenarios.
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 12:41 pm
leah233 wrote:
I've read some of NR's books.I've also read some the Yiddish novels that the Haskalah movement were openly using to attack Orthodox Judaism.I would say the latter were actually less hostile and certainly more objective and nuanced then the former.(Few of those Yiddish novels would even make sense today)


Fascinating. What are some authors/titles? Are they translated?
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leah233




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 12:54 pm
sequoia wrote:
Fascinating. What are some authors/titles? Are they translated?


I don't remember most of the titles.Due to their lack of current relevance most weren't translated or are out of print.

I do (e.g.)remember one title "Kutzo Shel Yud" The story goes that a get was given and found invalid because of a mistake in writing a Yud. The ex husband was not available to write a new one (I forgot why)The rabbis did not allow the wife to remarry etc.

(Of course in real life AFAIK such a story is impossible because Gittin are destroyed immediately and a divorce receipt is given to avoid such problems)
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November




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 6:05 pm
I love reading novels, studied them a bit at college, thought Saturday Wife was so STUPID. Sorry, Sequoia Wink
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amother


 

Post Tue, Sep 09 2014, 11:50 pm
I loved chains around the grass. Her other books infuriated me because they were full of lies. I stopped following her or reading her emails when she was accused of plagiarism of Sarah Shapiro, and she lost the case BH. She is a thief, and I wish I could write as well as her to put some books out there portraying the beauty of a chasidic marriage instead of the ugly and filthy and the way she degrades us all....
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amother


 

Post Wed, Sep 10 2014, 2:08 am
amother wrote:
I loved chains around the grass. Her other books infuriated me because they were full of lies. I stopped following her or reading her emails when she was accused of plagiarism of Sarah Shapiro, and she lost the case BH. She is a thief, and I wish I could write as well as her to put some books out there portraying the beauty of a chasidic marriage instead of the ugly and filthy and the way she degrades us all....
That's what I think and I'm not chassidic at all. She uses her amazing talent to write lies. She might base it on facts (ex - The parents go to a shadchan to find their child a match - unheard of in the secular world) but she takes the few times of problems (which can happen no matter what you are) and publishes books that give the world a totally wrong picture.
Quote:
I wish I could write as well as her to put some books out there portraying the beauty of a chasidic marriage
But that's the problem. Chassidim don't want to "impress" the world about their lifestyle. It's a total mystery to people who have no contact with it. She opened the door to the world but in a bad way and no one will ever correct it (and it wouldn't make a good book. You have to observe it to appreciate it).
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