Any isur in watching violence?

Motek

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 4:54 pm

What would be the isur (prohibition) in watching violence whether a violent movie, a wrestling match, the beheading of Daniel Pearl (may G-d avenge his blood) if any?

red sea

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 5:04 pm

imho it is the same issur of girls reading or watching illicit romance or watching a video of a church religous ceremony

Last edited by red sea on Sun, Jun 15 2008, 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

Ruchel

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 5:06 pm

Not getting entertainment from someone's pain?

I don't know, I was never told not to look at violence, except when it was something real because in some cases it's a real lack of respect to look. So even then, depends on the context... if it's shown for entertainment, or to show what happened, etc.

My husband told me he never really learned of not watching, except one teacher at the cheder (who was extreme on everything) who said we shouldn't watch people sinning (which includes hitting) because we will do the same, and violence is often sinas chinam, so watching causes sinas chinam... if you want an example on him, he went through the dictionary, tearing off every page with a word he called "not kosher": love, in love, kiss,..
These were words he never used, and would yell on everyone who used them. He once said "love doesn't exist, it's non jewish. It's even assur to say it".
So, I'm not too tempted to think he's right.

ora_43

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 5:55 pm

IMO the biggest problem would be desensitization. It would probably fall into "kedoshim tiyu." Watching violence without good reason, for entertainment, is not a holy thing to do.

There's also the issue of "v'ahavta l'reecha"--if the violence is real, as in wrestling or boxing, how can you be entertained watching people be hurt? If you feel the proper love and respect towards them, it will be painful to watch and not at all fun. As for something like the beheading of Daniel Pearl hy"d, I think it would depend on whether there's a concrete reason why watching is necessary.

queen

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 8:59 pm

I strongly believe it would effect you to the negative. Everything you see, read or hear has an influence on you.

RedRuby

Mon, Jun 16 2008, 2:31 am

It is so disturbing... Maybe the fear that the violent images would pop up in the most innapropriate times?

And the de-sensitivation issue would be problematic too. Aren't we supposed to be "Rachmanim, Bayshonim, and Gomlei Chassadim"?

Watching violence seems the antithesis to being a merciful people.

Motek

Tue, Jun 17 2008, 10:18 am

I agree with all the points made but still haven't heard if there is an outright isur.

Quote:

if the violence is real, as in wrestling or boxing, how can you be entertained watching people be hurt?

what about (American) football?

red sea

Tue, Jun 17 2008, 3:49 pm

Boxing has real violence but wrestling is play-acted so is prob the same as a show. And football is a ball game. There is n/t wrong with it. (Except half time shows)

Clarissa

Tue, Jun 17 2008, 3:54 pm

Come on, someone, come up with a reason that football and basketball are not halachically acceptable. I failed in instituting that Yom Tov gift thing, I need something else to work on here.

AlwaysGrateful

Tue, Jun 17 2008, 4:17 pm

red sea wrote:

imho it is the same issur of girls reading or watching illicit romance or watching a video of a church religous ceremony

I think what red sea meant here was...

There's an issur of lo sasuru acharei livavchem v'acharei aineichem. I was taught that the issur means that you shouldn't look at the three yehareg v'al yaavors - killing, adultery, idol worship.

I was told this in eighth grade - an eighth grader who always watched movies and never dreamed there would be an issue with it, and I was told it by my chumash teacher. No, she wasn't shoving it down my throat - I got into a conversation with her after class one day, and I asked her, pretty argumentatively - "I can watch whatever I want. Where does it say in the Torah that I can't watch romance movies?" This was her answer to me - so I have no source, never looked it up, but I must admit I was impressed that she had an answer like this.

And then later on, as a naive high-schooler, I asked a teacher what I should do if my mom wants me to watch a TV show with her (I was just getting to the "I don't want to watch TV" stage, but I have a close relationship with my mom and really wanted to keep it that way). She asked me what kinds of things I was watching with her. I told her "Little House on the Prairie." She laughed (go ahead - you can too!), and said there's no violence in it, and no gilui arayos in it...she said the only issue would be if they start showing religious ceremonies on the inside of a church, and even that isn't so clearcut. She said that if I can excuse myself to go to the bathroom or something during those scenes, I should, but if it would strain my relationship with my mother at all, we're more maikil on it.

(If you're wondering why she sounds like she was "paskining" for me, it's because 1) I was not at the point where I would have agreed to ask a rav, 2) I would not have respected her had she asked me to wait - while she asked one, and 3) She had gone through a similar situation herself as a kid, so she was passing on what she was told to me.)

There you go - do with that as you will! I don't think I've ever shared that with anyone...and I haven't thought about it for years!

RedRuby

Tue, Jun 17 2008, 4:51 pm

Clarissa, don't!!

Haven't you ever heard that if football were eradicated, the percentage rate of violent murders would skyrocket?

Motek

Tue, Jun 17 2008, 8:34 pm

AlwaysGrateful wrote:

There's an issur of lo sasuru acharei livavchem v'acharei aineichem. I was taught that the issur means that you shouldn't look at the three yehareg v'al yaavors - killing, adultery, idol worship....I have no source, never looked it up, but I must admit I was impressed that she had an answer like this.

I'd love to know a source for that.

I received an answer via email to my question as follows:

The Ohr HaChaim HaKodosh writes (Devarim 13:18) that the reason G-d has to give rachamim to the people who had killed out an Ir HaNidachas (members of an entire community who serve idols) is that they had to involve themselves in some very cruel acts in wiping out the city, and this had made them cruel. Therefore G-d promised to give them rachamim to counteract the cruelty they had acquired. I understand from this that when we involve ourselves in cruelty, either actively or vicariously, we become cruel and this is not a good thing. The specific isur is the same as when we acquire any bad middah.

You have violated the Mitzva of making yourself like G-d (Ma Hu rachum, af ato ruchum, etc.). (The Rambam does not include "kedoshim tihiyu" as one of the 613 mitzvohs.)