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Kollel Life

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shalhevet

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 3:59 pm

midwest wrote:

Unless you have help from parents, living the Kollel life long term is not possible.

That is just your opinion.

It depends on how much the wife works, where you live, and what standard of living you are prepared to have.

cdawnr

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:01 pm

OP--I think we are all freaking out a little on the food prices. Smile

...

InTheKitchen--Thank you for giving more detail. I only questioned because when you bring an example of someone already with 17 children they are obviously much older and it may not be clear what their situation was in the beginning. So thanks. (And I meant the renovations to make the separate apartment...)

shalhevet

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:04 pm

jinx, Aidelmom and amother Wink

creativemommyto3

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:04 pm

shalhevet wrote:

midwest wrote:

Unless you have help from parents, living the Kollel life long term is not possible.

That is just your opinion.

It depends on how much the wife works, where you live, and what standard of living you are prepared to have.

Once you get past 4 kids you have to move to an out of town place . My bil and sil had to move to australia to stay in kollel . Now they have double that and at this point he had to find additional income.

In the kitchen

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:05 pm

No problem..
And there really weren't much of any rennovations to that room they rent out...the inner door has a large piece of ply wood nailed over it...and the inner door for the bathroom has a ltach lock from inside the house at a height the kids can't reach... the only thing that they did have to put in for was adding a counter with a sink (no hot water though) and a mini fridge for an impromptu kitchen. Not really posh by any stretch of the word but they haven't found touble renting it out.

AlwaysGrateful

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:06 pm

midwest wrote:

Unless you have help from parents, living the Kollel life long term is not possible.

Based on the other answers on this thread, this seems somewhat closedminded...somehow, people do it. Really.

We have minimal help from parents. No financial help, but they do pay for our cell phone plans (we're on family plans) and a few other small expenses (dh still uses the ezpass from before we got married - since we use it to drive to see my in-laws, they suggested this; my mother sometimes buys small things for me that I mentioned I was planning on buying for us; etc.)

Now, we've only been in kollel for a couple of years now. First off, I work, and I do get insurance through my work. I didn't buy new clothes the first year we were married, and I only bought new clothes the second year because I needed maternity. Will my paycheck always cover our expenses? It should be pretty close for the next couple of years, and any extra money we "need" will taken from the money I saved up before marriage - that includes summers as a counselor, high school babysitting jobs, and the time I was working and not yet married (I guess that's not possible if you get married much younger, but I didn't have that choice...). Also, there's always the wedding money...

So could WE do this long term? No, I don't think so. With kids in the picture, and tuitions...I don't know. I'm not sure how much longer we will stay in kollel, but it won't be LONG term - maybe a few more years. I really do appreciate this life, though, and I see how full-time learning is wonderful for dh right now. If it stops being so wonderful, or if we start feeling the pinch too much, or if some other reason comes along, dh will go out to work. But right now, it's working. And honestly - I think that if we cut a few more corners, it COULD work more long-term. I don't think that's the right decision for us, but I could definitely see how it could work for others.

So those are my thoughts on the subject...

Strudel

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:10 pm

Why should the wife support the family? That's a husband's job. Plus, I've never met anyone learning long term (not just a year or two after marriage), who doesn't have any help from family. That can be regular financial support or just help around Yom Tov or when a new baby arrives.

If it were possible, my husband would still be in learning. We've never had any help from family (I even paid for my own wedding), so sitting and learning in the long term is just not on.

B'tzimtzim

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:12 pm

OP, it seems like I have a similar situation as you. DH is full time in kollel which pays pennies if at all. I BH have a good job - I bring in all the income. No kids yet, although we have spent loads on fertilty treatement. BH we manage to live off my income, plus put money in the bank for savings. We don't qualify for any govmnt funding b/c I make to much and everything is on the books.

Here are my monthly expenses:
Insurance - I get thru my employer and for DH it costs $400 a month.
Rent - over $1000 for a tiny one bedroom
Food and groceries/toiletries, etc. - about $150 a week. I try to shop a lot in bulk. I go to a fruit store that sells the half rotten fruts and veggies for cheap. I buy the cheapest brands of e/t, and I try not to buy foods that are too expensive.
Car - We own one car. DH walks to kollel. I pay a lot for gas. About $200 a month. My car is a gas guzzler and I drive a lot for work and errands. Insurance we BH don't pay b/c its technically my parents car and they just pay our insurance with all of theirs.
Phone + internet - under $50 a month. (Cell phones we have on my parents plan so they pay for that)
Laundry - a BIG pain. We go relatives nearby and use their machine. Luckily it's free, but it is a lot of shlepping.
Utilities - I run the AC as little as possible. I literally drip with sweat to save money. Still, the bill for energy+gas is btween 40-140 depending on the month.
Clothing - I am very frugal. I don't shop in Brooklyn type stores where it is sooo expensive. I go to department stores when they have sales. I don't own much clothing. About 3 shabbos outfits per season, a wedding outfit and lets say 8 weekday tops and some skirts. I wear my clothing till they are too old to wear ( I don't buy trendy clothing that go out of style quickly).
Shaitel - I do it myself to save money. I havn't bought a new one since my wedding, but I did win one once in a Chinese Auction.
(Medical Bills - Depends on the month and if we are currently doing treatment. But that is a lot, and I won't consider this in the chesbon b/c hopefully you don't have that issue. )

This all comes out to about 2,500 a month + extras here and there. BH I make considerably more than that (before taxes tho) so we manage nicely.

In the kitchen

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:13 pm

Well everyone has their own opinion about that, and it's up to everyone to decide how they want to live. If the wife wants to support then it should be with hatzlocha.

It sounds like the OP wants tips and advice on how to continue this path that she has chosen, not to hear whether others agree or disagree about the lifestyle.

Ruchel

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:21 pm

It is definitely possible if the wife works full time or a very well paid part time. It's no different than a stay at home dad!

Unfortunately communities that have a high % of kollelmen also don't like university, which makes it very hard to find. Basically you have to be your own boss for a good pay without a high degree.

It is definitely hard if the wife becomes sick or whatever, but if it's a short term illness she can't be fired, which helps a lot.
If she's her own boss, OUCH. Money will NOT be there every month when you're sick... she'd better save a lot (if she can!!) or accept a low pay but security.

It is also hard when there are many kids, especially if they go to Jewish school, which today is the only choice for most people like this.

They also may do things most other communities would not consider, like keeping meat (charedi supervision is even more expensive than already horribly expensive kosher) for shabbes. Of course kids won't have their room for themselves but one for girls one for boys. The neighbourhood they'll have to live in may be dangerous. Or they may be the only "visibly" frum family and both will have 2 hours of commute to reach work/kollel. Or more. I know of such cases.

It is POSSIBLE. It is even possible to live from govt helps and have no one of the family working. Especially if you're clever and into good occasions in shops, etc. Most of us would go crazy but some people actually prefer that to working. I suppose in this case you have to accept any frum school that will take your kids. Unfortunately these days with many people wanting and few schools, you may be out for money reasons.

It's just about accepting certain standards. Moving around until you find a community in the world where they'll take the kids to school without paying, or you homeschool them (but then who works?). Not having what most people deem necessary. Etc.

Now, about the wife agreeing, I also don't see why a woman would want "her stuff", pregnancies, being sick for months... and also work "like a guy".
Yes I know a real kollelman comes home dead tired, and I don't have anything against them. It's just when I read or hear about all the others that it drives me crazy that women allow it. Kollel should be a priviledge, a man's duty according to ketuba is working. If only men cut for it and motivated and contributing would be in kollel (a small % like it always was) there would be money for a decent stipend and wives wouldn't have to work (as much).

mummiedearest

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:25 pm

ruchel, it's like a stay at home dad except the couple has to pay for childcare. that can be a very big expense.

Ruchel

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:34 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

ruchel, it's like a stay at home dad except the couple has to pay for childcare. that can be a very big expense.

ah, true! forgot that point!

amother

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:38 pm

So either you have to not care about physical things or be supported by other people?

In the kitchen

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:39 pm

From what I have seen-yes.

Aidelmom

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:40 pm

I'd like to make a suggestion. Next time Op (or maybe the thread can be moved) start the thread in the Yeshivish subforum. It looks like the main forum is not the place to get the chizuk and ideas you're looking for.

amother

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:42 pm

I think it sounds like a good life, if one is comfortable doing without luxuries. I don't think people should rely on public assistance or being paid off the books to do it. Avoiding paying taxes isn't legal or ethical, and if one is on public assistance it's a sure sign one has to find some better way to take care of the family. If one lives in an area with a very low cost of living, has very few children or has a family that wants to help, I imagine it can work fine.

In the kitchen

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:43 pm

Aidelmom wrote:

Good idea. They should be able to give more advice. Although the people that I know living this life with no assistance do not have internet...maybe you could seek advice from other kollel wives in your community. They would most certainly understand and also have a better idea about expenses in your neck of the woods.

edited to add "that I know"

cdawnr

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:45 pm

Aidelmom wrote:

Aidelmom, I think that isn't fair at all. I think this thread has been positive on the whole. There was only one generalized statement that seemed, to me, anti-kollel, and that was responded to a good number of times.

Most of the answers I read seemed to say it is possible, just very difficult.

Clarissa

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:46 pm

If the wife works and the husband makes even a little money, it might not be that different than the lives many of us lead as SAHMs. One income, lots of ways to stretch money. People certainly have lots of tricks up their sleeves for their families to survive with one income and normal modern expenses.

amother

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 4:53 pm

In the kitchen wrote:

They didn't alter their house for the play group...Im not sure what you mean. But their house is very very worn out and could use a ton of TLC (ie, needs desparately to be repainted inside, floors are horrendous, some kitchen drawers and cabinets missing their fronts (doors) etc. However, they manage!

I wonder if this is an admirable way to live. From the way you describe it, it seems that they live in an indecent environment.

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