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-> Interesting Discussions
ForeverYoung
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 Sun, Nov 21 2004, 11:41 am
the topic is:How are the Bodies of Jews Different?
the question of the original poster is: what role do health statistics play in the life of an observant Jew?
not very related and/ or consisten, and has people arguing on 2 different topics
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Freilich, you have a good point!!!
we go and het help when we need it, but we know that H' is the one who runs the show!!!
Last edited by ForeverYoung on Wed, Nov 24 2004, 9:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Motek
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Wed, Nov 24 2004, 3:10 pm
| Rochel Leah wrote: | motek, would you take homeopathic remedies..is that according to torah?
seconf=dly do you believe in kabalistic healing practises like putting pigeons on a person suferring from hepititas's stomach and they remove the sickness , and the pigeons die from it...( I know it works) ... |
not that this is on the thread topic ...
homeopathic remedies - I haven't reached any conclusion about whether they work or not
if I had a situation and a homeopathic remedy was suggested, I might give it a try bec. I think it's either worthless or might help, they don't seem to be at all dangerous
according to Torah? not any more or less than other cures
never heard that the pigeon cure is "kabbalistic"
I've heard mixed reports on it, some say they know it works, others say it doesn't
there too, can't see any danger in it
maybe it's worth trying
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Rochel Leah
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Thu, Nov 25 2004, 5:23 am
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I also have seen it with my own eyes work..my father has a liver condition and every once in a while my mother gets pigeons from a pigeon farm and my brother has learnt how do do it and they just die one after the other until the sickness is removed. but with acual hapitites it takes it away for good.
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Tefila
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Thu, Nov 25 2004, 4:32 pm
| Quote: | | I also have seen it with my own eyes work..my father has a liver condition and every once in a while my mother gets pigeons from a pigeon farm and my brother has learnt how do do it and they just die one after the other until the sickness is removed |
Rabbi Gordon shliach in london, had many years ago hepatitis and they used pigeons and he was cured
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AweSumThenSum
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Fri, Dec 17 2004, 8:34 am
it's important to remember that in the torah, ushmartem M'EOD es nafshoseychem, is the ONLY mitzvah in the torah where the word m'eod is used. duznt that say s/t? it is imperative that we maintain good health by taking care of our bodies. that goes for what we eat, and how we conduct our lives (I.e. exercise, looking both ways before crossing, etc...). statistics are good guidelines (statistics show that overweight people have more health problems than their thinner coutnerparts), but we should not govern our lives SOLELY by them.
as for supplements and vitamins, a lot of them are not kosher, but according to some rabbanim, they may nonetheless be taken if needed for health ailments. ASK UR OWN RAV, I AM X GIVING HALACHIC PERMISSION W/ THIS POSTING.
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Saraliba
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Mon, Dec 20 2004, 11:56 am
Rebbe Nachman of Breslov would say that doctors are angels of death - they were murderers in their past life.  Which explains personally my innate reticence about running to them. But being a Dr is their teshuva and we are to find the best of the best and not ignore our health needs.
Are our bodies different? Lets just say they are prone to those extra lbs from all that kugel and vicious chopped liver...... Bravo for Sephardi cooking. The Ashkenaz menu has no appeal for me especially when seudot are late and there is no excercise afterwards...too many clogged Jewish arteries I dare say 
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Motek
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Mon, Jan 17 2005, 2:37 pm
| mp wrote: | | Motek, it seems that our quotes are actually the same and Rashi explains that "learning Torah" for the nonJew means learning sheva mitzvos bnei noach. Also, for a nice discussion of levels and Jew vs nonJew and who is closer to G-d, see the article posted in the intellectual thread by Yehudis. The author makes a nice distinction between our faulty human perception ( we are better than everyone else) and the world the way it really is from G-d's point of view( no one has more value than anyone else). |
I skimmed through the article, didn't notice anything about Jews vs. non-Jews there
could you direct me to the section of the article that discusses it?
the Torah makes it quite clear that Jews are G-d's Chosen People
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gryp
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Tue, Jan 18 2005, 6:42 am
mp- a simple explanation of how Jews' bodies and non-Jews bodies are different:
a Jew's body is made up of klipas nogah, the kind of klipah that can be elevated (or chas vesholom lowered), and a non-Jew's body is made up of shalosh klipas hatmai'os- the lowest level of klipah that can never be elevated.
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gryp
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Tue, Jan 18 2005, 7:16 am
| Quote: | | You are not G-d and do not know who is "better" or more beloved in G-d's eyes- the Jew who keeps nothing or the nonJew who keeps all sheva mitzvos |
there is no doubt that Yidden are more beloved to Hashem than non jews. Hashem says, "Bni Bechori Yisrael," and countless other psukim to describe Hashem love for bnei yisrael. the entire Mishlei does.
a Yid has a special neshama that is an actual part of Hashem. therefore a Yid can never ever be "far" from Hashem.
there is a famous sicha which I havent learned in a while so I dont remember all the details, but the point of it is this question: who is "closer" to a master? one who fulfills his requests when commanded to do so, or one who fulfills his requests when not commanded? at first we might think that the one who wasnt commanded is closer, because he is doing it as a favor. but the real answer is that the one who was commanded and fulfills his requests is closer, just like the Yidden are closer to Hashem through the mitzvos that he gives us.
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gryp
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Tue, Jan 18 2005, 7:25 am
| Quote: | | You are not G-d and do not know who is "better" or more beloved in G-d's eyes- |
just to add to what ive said- we know Jews are more beloved because Hasem said so. it is not me who said this, its Hashem. and He, im sure you will not argue with.
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Tefila
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Tue, Jan 18 2005, 7:32 am
| Quote: | | we know Jews are more beloved because Hasem said so. it is not me who said this, its Hashem. and He, im sure you will not argue with |
So now it's, a closed discussion!!!!!!!!
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ForeverYoung
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Tue, Jan 18 2005, 8:30 am
It is a known fact, even among goim, that the Jews are the oldest nation & that according to the laws of nature we should not exist today.
The only way it can be explained is that there is a special bond between us & G-d & even goim aknowledge that
And, as rg said, since H' Himself singled us out, it's an established fact.
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Motek
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Tue, Jan 18 2005, 8:35 am
re the author's comment about hierarchy, I'd like to see the source for what she's saying. Could very well be that she's accurate, but so what? As I posted in the thread where that article was posted, in response to your question, both the sin and the results are what Hashem wants.
| mp wrote: | | explain how Jews are all that much closer to G-d if a non-Jew studying sheva mitzvos can reach the level of a Cohen Gadol. |
In the Gemara Bava Kama it says, “afilu nachri v’osek b’Torah, sh’hu k’kohen gadol (even a [gentile] who is osek in Torah, is like a kohen gadol)
and I still don't see the Rashi you quote
Tosfos in Gemara Avoda Zara says it’s referring to his studying the sheva mitzvos
Tosfos asks – why like a kohen gadol? Because in Sota it says that one who studies Torah is greater than a kohen gadol who goes into the holy of holies
The standard we use to measure the GREATNESS OF TORAH STUDY, is the kohen gadol as he goes into the holy of holies.
The mishna at the end of Horiyos says that a mamzer talmid chacham is honored more than a kohen gadol am ha’aretz (ignoramus).
When it's a Jew (mamzer talmid chacham) who studies Torah, we say he is honored more than a kohen gadol. When it's a [gentile] who studies Torah, it says he is like a kohen gadol.
These statements are not so much about the Jew or [gentile] but about the greatness of Torah study. The Torah is G-d's wisdom as he encapsulated it for man to be able to understand, and if man studies it, whether Jew or l'havdil a [gentile], then he is like (if a [gentile]) or greater than (if a Jew) a kohen gadol.
| mp wrote: | | About Jews having physically different bodies than nonJews- please. Let's ask some geirim if they actually felt their bodies transform in the mikvah. |
hmm, we can also ask if they felt when they got a Jewish soul, but that's only worth asking if you believe that converts get a Jewish soul, and only worth asking if you believe the statements in Torah and Chazal
we can ask a lot of things, but what's the point in asking? will these surveys change the reality as the Torah describes it?
apparently, you don't think Torah describes reality
| mp wrote: | | You are not G-d and do not know who is "better" or more beloved in G-d's eyes |
as the other posters wrote, we sure do, because G-d said so and we say it every day in davening, a few times
will you allow your children to say these parts of the davening?
if you do, will you tell them how you think the siddur is lying?
| mp wrote: | | As opposed to the Christians, who profess the superiority of their beliefs over all others, we believe that each person can become closer to G-d if they do what is right for them- whether it is 613 or 7 mitzvos. |
Jews KNOW that their beliefs are superior than all others because they are true, because G-d said so. "And they believed in G-d and in Moshe His servant" - in the Torah that Moshe transmitted. And in this Torah it says Jews are G-d's chosen people.
though it is true too that any person can become close to G-d if he/she does what G-d wants him to do
Last edited by Motek on Fri, May 06 2005, 6:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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ForeverYoung
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Tue, Jan 18 2005, 8:54 am
a very thorough answer, Motek!
just occured to me, mp
what are you trying to prove?
what are you arguing about?
you mentioned elswhere that yo believe in H' & that His Torah is true. So why do you turn around ans argue w/ facts stated directly in the Torah?
you know, you should read "The Medrash" - english compilation on the weekly portion - it would answer many of your questions and fill you in on some basick knowledge in Chumash. It also is an interesting read.
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Motek
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Mon, May 09 2005, 6:46 am
I came across two interesting sources on this thread topic:
1) the Gemara Shabbos, daf 146a says that the serpent put "zohama" (filth) in Chava [and her descendents, I.e. all of mankind]. When Israel stood at Sinai, this zohama ceased. The gentiles, who did not stand at Sinai, still retain this zohama.
2) the Gemara Shabbos 86b says, "A Jew, who is anxious about the mitzvos, his body is hot; whereas a non-Jew, who is unconcerned, his body is cooler."
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1stimer
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Mon, May 09 2005, 1:35 pm
1. We are different from any other nation, because they all say that if u don't believe in our religion u will go to eternal damnation. Jews don't say that, we say that a non-Jew can be a good person and even get reward for doing his bit - keeping the seven basic laws of morality.
2. However, Jews were given more responsibilities, so therefore they get more reward for keeping them. E.g. you can travel as a passenger or as a steward. A steward has more work but they get paid more.
3. Anyone who sincerely wants to 'upgrade' and become a Jew can.
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Motek
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Tue, May 10 2005, 4:56 am
| amother wrote: | | How are we different from every other religion and nationality which thinks that they are the best one ? |
You've asked this question before and the answer is, that Torah is Truth and in the Torah it says that the Jewish people are G-d's Chosen people, His treasure, His holy people.
It's not an argument.
Seems you think the revelation from G-d, which is known as the Torah, is G-d forbid shallow. 
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roza
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Wed, May 11 2005, 11:25 pm
| Quote: | but you know what? G-d allows us the choice of living a life of natural cause and effect. G-d says, you want to live that way? Fine. (well almost fine, as long as you remember that all cause and effect comes from G-d)
But if you choose to raise yourself up above that, G-d will "go along with that" too.
It's up to us to choose the level we wish to operate on.
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if you remember that all cause and effect comes from Hashem, then what does 'raise yourself above that' means? Above what?
you know very well that there is a mailoh (advantage) in each of the 2 ways- 'bederech hateivoh' (through natural means) and 'lemaileh miderech hateivoh' (supernatural means). Everyone has a different avoidoh (way of serving G-d). Does not mean one is greater then the other- it's what is right for that particular person in that particular situation.
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ForeverYoung
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Thu, May 12 2005, 4:32 am
| amother wrote: | | It just seems so convenient to be better and holier. |
Really?
I wouldn't say so.
I'd say it's a big honor.
Just take the Holocaust & all the antisemitism - you call them CONVENIENCE???? 
| Quote: | | How are we different from every other religion and nationality which thinks that they are the best one ? |
we're different b/c they ALL believe in Old Testament & KNOW that we're chosen.
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Mandy
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Wed, Feb 15 2006, 8:52 pm
regarding these quotes :
| Quote: | | there is a famous sicha which I havent learned in a while so I dont remember all the details, but the point of it is this question: who is "closer" to a master? one who fulfills his requests when commanded to do so, or one who fulfills his requests when not commanded? at first we might think that the one who wasnt commanded is closer, because he is doing it as a favor. but the real answer is that the one who was commanded and fulfills his requests is closer, just like the Yidden are closer to Hashem through the mitzvos that he gives us | .
| Quote: | | a Jew's body is made up of klipas nogah, the kind of klipah that can be elevated (or chas vesholom lowered), and a non-Jew's body is made up of shalosh klipas hatmai'os- the lowest level of klipah that can never be elevated. |
I would like to share that I have recently discussed a similar topic with a very learned and chassidishe shliach who informed me that the Alter Rebbe in the Tanya did not speak derogatorily about non jews and anyone who interprets the Tanya and chassidus in general as denigrating to the nonJews is doing a tremendous disservice to chabad and frumkeit in general. She actually had some harsher words, but I'll leave it at that. Just wanted to share.
In addition it is not true that shalosh klipos cannot be elevated.
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