What to answer to this non-frum gal

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ShakleeMom

Thu, Aug 21 2008, 11:07 pm

She wants to know why the Chassidim are closed minded, and why the males will avoid any talk about topics that they find taboo. For example, her example) if you ask a chassid, why do you go to shul three times a day, he’ll most likely answer, because, num okay ? ! and get annoyed. Yet a modern orthodox Jew will take the time to explain and on and on. I have to grant it to her, assuming she is not stereotyping, she is dead on.

I tried to tell her it’s because they were raised to hurry up and grow up and get married. With very little time before marriage for education, they don’t know much about why they do things. And therefore are uncomfortable with the whole questioning concept. Then again, this is why Chassidim are terrible for kiruv.

Help. She looks towards me for clarification and I told her I’ll email her some inspirational stuff. Oy vey.

Chani

Thu, Aug 21 2008, 11:18 pm

Why do you think chassidim are terrible for kiruv? I know several chassidim from various chassidus (not even including Lubavitch!) who are involved in kiruv and who are spectacular at it. Seems a very broad stroke generalization to me. Just like everybody else, there are some who are rude and some who are closed-minded, but there are also those who are the epitome of kindness, friendliness, and patience and who are very accepting of those from different backgrounds.

ShakleeMom

Thu, Aug 21 2008, 11:24 pm

Of course of course. She’s stereotyping, and I am too, and generalizing. As a whole though it is hard to find 1 in 100 (ultra) chassidim (aka satmars) who routinely reach out each shabbos, compared to Lubavitchers who will make it a way of life. And she has a great point I feel.

Lady Godiva

Thu, Aug 21 2008, 11:26 pm

I think that that's the Chassidic way of protecting their community from outside influences. I'm not saying this negatively God forbid. It's just their way of life. I think that's a simple enough answer to give your friend.

Crayon210

Thu, Aug 21 2008, 11:27 pm

I don't think you're the right person to answer her questions if you thinks she's right Exclamation

Your stereotypes sound ignorant, and I don't see how you can pass on anything positive to her if you feel so negatively yourself.

ShakleeMom

Thu, Aug 21 2008, 11:30 pm

Ok so what do I do. Any volunteers?

ny_ima

Thu, Aug 21 2008, 11:53 pm

Firstly I disagree re chassidim's ignorance! Every ben torah knows y we daven 3 times a day the tefillos which were set by 3 avos...
Most chassidim do not want to be the ones explaining to a woman esp a non frum gal for tznius reasons!
Al tarbeh sicha I'm ha-isha.
Give them credit for not looking/talking... Its not a simple task but one they grew up with and educated this way.
Those in kiruv I imagine get ok from rav/rebbe so they truly do it leshem Shamayim. Not all are cut out for this.
Y does this gal want to get her answers from ppl who serve Hashem by sheltering themselves from the outside world??
Tell her to go online to find beautiful answers about yiddishkeit, like aish.com etc. Also tell her that chassidim are born into it and do not neccesarily merit their clothing as badge of frumkeit. Derech eretz kadma laTorah goes for all, and we should not forget that there r plenty erliche chassidim!

ShakleeMom

Thu, Aug 21 2008, 11:56 pm

thanks. Explain this please a bit more: Also tell her that chassidim are born into it and do not neccesarily merit their clothing as badge of frumkeit.

flowerpower

Thu, Aug 21 2008, 11:56 pm

Shame on you for knocking the chassidim! You are hurting all the ones that are here on imamother. How can you stereotype? You know how many chassidisha people are into kiruv!

You can give her a good book-Eichlers has a big variety.

ShakleeMom

Thu, Aug 21 2008, 11:59 pm

I’m a chossid by birth, so would you call me a self hating jew? I am only explaining how I can understand her confusion. The going-to-shul thing was only an example, not a real one.

amother

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 12:06 am

My tenant was on the way to become a geyoris and was invited by the whole neighborhood every week. She had so many offers she didn't knwo which to accept first. She has so many nice women helping her with her questions. And most were chassidish. My mom used to host a ton of guest every week-from all circles of life and believe me she's not the only one or close to it. Oh and we're chasidish!

ShakleeMom

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 12:07 am

nu, so help me help her. maybe I’m ignorant... but I need all the help I can get. shove the criticism

ora_43

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 12:24 am

I don't think chassidim are ignorant regarding halacha or their own customs, but maybe they do tend to be less used to explaining things. MO tend to have non-Jewish work colleagues, non-frum friends, etc, so they get used to answering things like "why do you say that little prayer every time you eat," "why were you mumbling when you came out of the bathroom," "why can't you turn on lights on Shabbat, that's not hard work," etc. If someone lives and works in a frum community, they'll be less used to that, and their answers might be short and unhelpful just because they don't understand what it is the questioner is asking.

My (non-chassidish) dh had this problem at one point. He grew up in the frum community in Israel, and even though not everyone he knew was frum, pretty much everyone knew about concepts like issur melacha on Shabbat, brachot, and the like. When my non-frum friends from abroad started asking him questions like "why can't you use lights on Shabbat," his answers basically amounted to, "because it's assur. Any other questions?" He didn't realize that people needed a lot more background. He also saw questions as purely halachic--for example, if someone asked, "why do frum people have so many kids? Don't you know the world is overpopulated as it is?" he would launch into an explanation of which rabbis say what about the command "pru u'rvu" without addressing the conflict between the command and the questioner's personal sense of morality. Fortunately he very quickly learned to hear what it was people were asking--did they need the whole story, a quick explanation of the halacha, a long discussion of the implications of a Torah lifestyle, etc. He had the knowledge and the willingness to share, he just needed to get used to the non-frum style of questioning.

I would guess that many chassidim are in a similar situation, and just need some furthur explanation of what your friend is trying to ask. Although it could also be, as a previous poster said, that if they are male they aren't comfortable talking to a non-frum female.

Crayon210

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 12:24 am

How many chassidim has she met that she feels so confident making a sweeping generalization about whole communities? Does she make generalizations like that about the black/Chinese/gay/Canadian/Buddhist communities?

ny_ima

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 1:13 am

To answer ur Q re levush:
Chasidish ppl r born into their wardrobe. Outwardly they may appear frummer to a nonfrum gal, but just like in any other community there are the good the bad (and the ugly) and the shy and the honest and the players. Its not like after u do a million mitzvos u get a shtreimel!

GAMZu

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 1:15 am

Quote:

I tried to tell her it’s because they were raised to hurry up and grow up and get married. With very little time before marriage for education, they don’t know much about why they do things.

Uhhhhhm.

Not only is this totally false, it is EXTREMELY insulting, and I'm sure she views chassidim in a much better light after you told her this.

ny_ima

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 1:17 am

Just wanted to add:

Don't be too open-minded,
Your brain might fall out! Lol

amother

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 1:18 am

ShakleeMom wrote:

nu, so help me help her. maybe I’m ignorant... but I need all the help I can get. shove the criticism

I think there is something to what ShakleeMom is saying. MOST chassidim are not trained to answer questions, because it's simply unnecessary. They generally aren't in contact with frei and non jews, so they aren't accustomed to explaining themselves. Furthermore, the chassidim on this side, tend to be of the more open-minded minority... being on the internet and all. So you can talk about your close inner circles who do kiruv, but let's just say they're a bit more modern and exposed to the outside world.

ShakleeMom

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 9:20 am

ora_43 wrote:

Thank you for your understanding. You are so right, that's exactly how I feel and how she feels too!

ShakleeMom

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 9:20 am

Crayon210 wrote:

she grew up with the Satmars and thinks that is all there is to Chassidus. it's very misleading, of course.

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