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ODD - Oppositional Defiant Disorder



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amother


 

Post Sun, Sep 07 2008, 10:17 am
I am mother to a 4 1/2 year old who has always had a big problem accepting authority - he has never been easy at home although he has usually been manageable, but over the last year in school nursery his behavior worsened, and problems (mainly in his school) escalated, to the extent that his school refused to accommodate him this year and we are still currently looking for an alternative place for him...We are also awaiting a psychological assessment.
I have been doing some reading, and am wondering if he has ODD. Does anyone else on this forum have a child with ODD who can relate and tell me a bit about their experiences?

Thanks!
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Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 07 2008, 11:25 am
I suggest trying Rosemond's website and books:

http://www.rosemond.com/

before you evaluate and label him.
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MRS.Mentsch




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 07 2008, 12:03 pm
..

Last edited by MRS.Mentsch on Mon, Oct 26 2009, 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother


 

Post Sun, Sep 07 2008, 1:54 pm
Separate amother here-

I have unofficially diagnosed my DD (age 7) with it as she fits all the descriptions. She turns it on and off though. In school, where she feels the pressure to conform to the ruitine and discipline, she has no problem. Well, a little of the opposite problem where she has to do everything exactly as the teacher says. 0% defiance there, about 80% defiance at home. She also has OCD, sensory disorders and various anxiety issues. We're in the middle of getting a current clinical pysch evaluation so we'll see what the professionals come up with.

I hate the labeling but she is already in a special class and I'd like to get her (and us) the proper help and therapy.

I feel for you!
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Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 07 2008, 2:07 pm
amother wrote:
I have unofficially diagnosed my DD (age 7) with it as she fits all the descriptions. She turns it on and off though. In school, where she feels the pressure to conform to the ruitine and discipline, she has no problem. Well, a little of the opposite problem where she has to do everything exactly as the teacher says. 0% defiance there, about 80% defiance at home.


Which proves Dr. Rosemond's point. It's not an illness and there is no medical diagnosis needed. You say it quite clearly: where she is expected to behave, she does. Perhaps you can sit in on her class and see how her teacher gains her cooperation.

Please, please parents who are thinking about this label, get the tools to enable you to discipline your children lovingly at home so they can have 0% defiance at home and at school, or close to zero (children are human!).
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pgk




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 07 2008, 2:47 pm
Just my 2 cents... I have discussed this at length with a professor of mine who deals specifically with diagnosing children with disorders such as these. In her opinion diagnosing a child with ODD is a MAJOR deal, and it is not a diagnosis to be made lightly. She feels that there are often various other issues that need to be dealt with and only after all venues have been exhausted should one consider diagnosing with ODD.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Feb 05 2011, 10:01 pm
amother wrote:
I am mother to a 4 1/2 year old who has always had a big problem accepting authority - he has never been easy at home although he has usually been manageable, but over the last year in school nursery his behavior worsened, and problems (mainly in his school) escalated, to the extent that his school refused to accommodate him this year and we are still currently looking for an alternative place for him...We are also awaiting a psychological assessment.
I have been doing some reading, and am wondering if he has ODD. Does anyone else on this forum have a child with ODD who can relate and tell me a bit about their experiences?

Thanks!


Have you find anything about this? I read your post and it seems like mystory here... Any guidance?
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granolamom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 06 2011, 10:07 am
ODD is a favorite of mine. I used to mock it all the time in my pre-mommy-know-it-all life. what is odd anyway, other than normal PITA kid coupled with bad parenting? HA at myself, because lets just say I know better now.
still, I think its not an easy thing to diagnose and is probably misdiagnosed as often as it is accurately diagnosed.
if only there was 'a way' to learn how to properly discipline these tough kids I'd sign up asap.
but I for one, and I'm not posting under amother because I feel very strongly about this, am rejecting the label. My child is a handful, my child is difficult, my child is 'special needs' in his own way and my child is very different than most of the kids I know. people may think I'm a bad mother or my kids a bad kid, but I know that my child is still worthy of love, worthy of my remaining hopeful, worthy of my getting up again and again each time we fail. I may not ever get it 'right' but I will not give up trying and praying and believing that he will be ok in the long run. getting there is our challenge and unless you've been there you have no idea what its about. it is so much more than just being clear and consistent. that's normal parenting. these kids need different parenting.

the good news is that we have found numerous useful ways of dealing with our child, and have seen positive changes over the last few years (new challenges continue to present themselves, though).
support group, anyone?

and I recommend two amazing books, The Difficult Child by stanley tureki and The Explosive Child (forgot the author). I hate the titles and try not to leave them lying about, but there's lots of good stuff in there.
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mamommommy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 06 2011, 10:24 am
pgk wrote:
Just my 2 cents... I have discussed this at length with a professor of mine who deals specifically with diagnosing children with disorders such as these. In her opinion diagnosing a child with ODD is a MAJOR deal, and it is not a diagnosis to be made lightly. She feels that there are often various other issues that need to be dealt with and only after all venues have been exhausted should one consider diagnosing with ODD.


I agree. While ODD is a valid diagnosis, there are many other difficulties that can cause similar symptoms (especially in a 4 1/2 year old), such as ADHD, sensory integration disorder, and other learning disabilities, so it is extremely important to research all avenues before concluding that a child truly has ODD.
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jackiejoel3




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 06 2011, 11:38 am
I believe that the OP said she was getting her DS an evaluation but I can't stress enough that this is a must before you decide that your child "has a disorder" Unless you have an advanced degree in a mental health field (and even if you do you shouldn't be diagnosing your own child) you should not label anyone. No matter how much you have read on the internet about whatever you feel they have. Labels are long term and lasting and most mental health professionals try to avoid diagnosing such a small child for this reason (with obvious acceptions). So please get a full pshychological evaluation for your child before making any decisions. Also something that is easy enough to try and often very effective, sleep deprivation is the number one cause of MISdiagnosed ADHD and ODD in small children. So try and up their daily sleep for a month and see if it makes a difference. Good luck OP the fact that you are trying so hard to help your child shows how much you love him.
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Isramom8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 06 2011, 11:49 am
I think 4 and a half is way too young to be diagnosed with ODD. The focus should be on balancing his life to calm him down and make his environment les stressful. A teen, now he could have ODD.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Feb 06 2011, 12:00 pm
So what would you do, ok get her tested, and what? if the only 2 schools available dont want to deal with it, it just happened to me that they had her one day for 2 hours and already determined that they cannot work with her? that she needs a 24/hrs shadow! whats up with that?
Anyway, any parent that may think this was happening to their child and they "cured" it?
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Isramom8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 06 2011, 12:05 pm
Op, yes, have her tested. Get help with whatever learning challenges are found. Have a psychiatrist treat her behavioral symptoms with medication. If a regular school still won't accommodate her, you may need to look into special programs.
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granolamom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 06 2011, 12:12 pm
I've been there.
Testing has its limitations. even a good test, even when administered by a highly qualified professional. the way you and the teachers present the symptoms have a huge impact on how the child is diagnosed. and some children are really hard to test.
but if you suspect that your child is possibly dealing with anxiety, adhd, learning disabilities, etc, thats probably a good place to start. just so you get a sense of whats going on. but never ever, along the process, ignore what your gut and heart are telling you. if a psychiatrist tells you something that doesnt ring true dont jump to assume you are wrong and the professional is right. they arent always.

I have experience with a school not wanting to deal with it, I think the school is out of its league when dealing with this, schools nowadays are not terribly creative or motivated to reach a child who is so out of the box, so to speak.
Is my child 'cured'? no. this is a lifelong struggle, I think. has my child exceeded ALL expectations of every single professional who has seen him? resoundingly YES. without therapy (didnt work, probably wont work with a child who is on teh ODD spectrum) and without drugs.

If you'd like to PM me I can go into further detail with you.
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granolamom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 06 2011, 12:17 pm
Isramom8 wrote:
Op, yes, have her tested. Get help with whatever learning challenges are found. Have a psychiatrist treat her behavioral symptoms with medication. If a regular school still won't accommodate her, you may need to look into special programs.


ime, its not so simple.
what special programs? around here, they are for kids with learning disabilities. or, as was suggested to me, a self contained classroom in the local public school. and that, is a completely unacceptable option for me.
for kids that dont fit into a neat category, there really are not many 'programs' available. and these children deserve to be accomodated by the existing programs even if it means that a mainstream school stretches a bit outside their comfort zone.
so yes, start with some evaluations. address that which can be addressed. and then find a way to help the school feel comfortable allowing your child to receive a torah education that she deserves.

and please, OP, be good to yourself. this work is not for the faint of heart.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 06 2011, 8:22 pm
I can't believe I'm going to agree with Motek here, 3 years later, but yes, ODD is overdiagnosed and I would be curious to find out what happens when rosemond's methods are applied to an ODD candidate.

In my opinion, young children do and can get ODD, but I have rarely seen cases that were not manageable by the basic behavioral principles in Rosemond's book combined with the conversational principles in Greene's Explosive Child.
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bubble gum




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 02 2011, 10:38 pm
marina wrote:
I can't believe I'm going to agree with Motek here, 3 years later, but yes, ODD is overdiagnosed and I would be curious to find out what happens when rosemond's methods are applied to an ODD candidate.

In my opinion, young children do and can get ODD, but I have rarely seen cases that were not manageable by the basic behavioral principles in Rosemond's book combined with the conversational principles in Greene's Explosive Child.


Would you mind briefly explaining the basic principles from Rosemond's book? Which of his books would you recommend for preschoolers?
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