Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions
Vaccines in Halacha
1  2  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

BeershevaBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 9:06 am
shabbosiscomin wrote:
I work in a private Jewish school and all we require as far as vaccinations is concerned is a note from parents explaining exactly which religious doctrine they are using when they say they are choosing against vaccinations. That's in IL though. Maybe it depends on state law?


Except Judaism doesn't forbid vaccinations...

Personally, I'm rather disappointed in the number of Jews (especially in the US) who use the religious exemption as their 'legal' excuse to not vaccinate their children. The religions that don't 'hold' by medical intervention of any kind are usually seen as fringe and 'kooky', why add Judaism to that list, especially when it isn't true.

If you don't believe in vaccinating your children, then lobby your government to change the law. But don't lie and put Judaism into a 'fringe' light.
Back to top

ss321




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 10:36 am
YESHASettler wrote:


Except Judaism doesn't forbid vaccinations...

Personally, I'm rather disappointed in the number of Jews (especially in the US) who use the religious exemption as their 'legal' excuse to not vaccinate their children. The religions that don't 'hold' by medical intervention of any kind are usually seen as fringe and 'kooky', why add Judaism to that list, especially when it isn't true.

If you don't believe in vaccinating your children, then lobby your government to change the law. But don't lie and put Judaism into a 'fringe' light.

well said.
Back to top

mammala120




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 1:27 pm
YESHASettler wrote:
shabbosiscomin wrote:
I work in a private Jewish school and all we require as far as vaccinations is concerned is a note from parents explaining exactly which religious doctrine they are using when they say they are choosing against vaccinations. That's in IL though. Maybe it depends on state law?


Except Judaism doesn't forbid vaccinations...

Personally, I'm rather disappointed in the number of Jews (especially in the US) who use the religious exemption as their 'legal' excuse to not vaccinate their children. The religions that don't 'hold' by medical intervention of any kind are usually seen as fringe and 'kooky', why add Judaism to that list, especially when it isn't true.

If you don't believe in vaccinating your children, then lobby your government to change the law. But don't lie and put Judaism into a 'fringe' light.



it is NOT A LIE. judaism can be used to prove your point agains vaccines. HOW YOU MAY ASK . well vaccines have negative side effects and harmful ingredients in them such as formaldehyde and aluminun. they alsot contain non-kosher animal cells like monkey kidney cells. so please before you attakck anyone and call them liers make sure your facts are FACTUAL AND TRUE. according to our religion above is assure. and yes I do vaccinate my kids, but in long and spread out schedual because I believe that doctors are not able to handle illness such measles or even wouping cough.

please don't don't it personaly just expressing my thought
Back to top

cassandra




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 6:26 pm
I'd really like a list of Rabbis who define "unishmartem" as not vaccinating. Since when do you women take it into your own hands to define the practical parameters of a pasuk?
Back to top

leomom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 6:45 pm
Doctors have medical experience, but they also have pressure to stick to the standard vaccine schedule. It's not always based on their analysis of a particular child's risk factors, or even on the family's general health concerns about vaccines (and there are plenty of legitimate ones). Doctors generally take a one-size-fits-all approach to vaccination. Parents, however, can and should advocate for their children's particular vaccination needs, and may refuse them (some/all) if they feel it's in the best interest of THEIR individual child.

As far as defining "v'nishmartem"... of course we have to do that ourselves (in an informed manner). We don't have specific halachos about each and every health and safety situation.
Back to top

cassandra




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 7:06 pm
yy wrote:


As far as defining "v'nishmartem"... of course we have to do that ourselves (in an informed manner). We don't have specific halachos about each and every health and safety situation.


We have specific halachos for everything else. Why not this?
Back to top

leomom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 9:21 pm
cassandra wrote:
yy wrote:


As far as defining "v'nishmartem"... of course we have to do that ourselves (in an informed manner). We don't have specific halachos about each and every health and safety situation.


We have specific halachos for everything else. Why not this?


In which sefer can I read these halachos as they pertain to vaccines?


Quote:
If you have used a religious exemption from vaccinations did you first pose the halachic question to your posek "According to Halacha am I allowed to vaccinate my child?"


If there is a question to ask, it is not, "Am I allowed to vaccinate?" but "Am I allowed to make that choice for myself based on health and safety concerns?"

Even doctors acknowledge that there are risks to vaccines. The government has a system for reporting vaccine reactions. Parents have legitimate reasons to choose not to accept those risks. And I would hope a knowledgeable Rav would understand that these risks do exist, and there is room within halacha for parents to say that THEY BELIEVE vaccines may cause harm.


Last edited by leomom on Sun, Sep 28 2008, 9:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

red sea




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 9:45 pm
Along that line yesha, there are somewhat halachic health guidelines and it may logically support those who delay and then spread out the vaccines as opposed as getting them according to the current guidelines (referring to hilchos shabbos and the status of babies at different ages). However, I agree with you that is it not a good thing to misrepresent judaism.
Back to top

bebe3




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 9:48 pm
I try to avoid the controversial topics, especially the ones I feel so strong for, for a few reasons. The main one is I cannot understand how a mother can willingly (and throw halacha into) putting their child into our diseased infected world unprotected. I would never let my kid ride in the car without a car seat, not wear a helmet when riding a bike or play over at someones house who has the flu (and many other things that could put them in harms way). We b"h don't see measles outbreaks, polio, mumps and all the other deadly diseases in our times anymore because of vaccinations. In the old days they didn't have chemists and doctors like we do today, but somehow they were able to rid these diseases with their serums and the whole world does not have autism. Vaccinations are that much safer nowadays because of advanced medicines, computers and better educated doctors. But there is no way that I would not protect my child, and the mothers who choose not to vaccinate are the ones who are putting my children at risk. And I would like to know one single prominent Rav who says its assur to vaccinate your children.
Back to top

cassandra




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 10:10 pm
yy wrote:


If there is a question to ask, it is not, "Am I allowed to vaccinate?" but "Am I allowed to make that choice for myself based on health and safety concerns?"

Even doctors acknowledge that there are risks to vaccines. The government has a system for reporting vaccine reactions. Parents have legitimate reasons to choose not to accept those risks. And I would hope a knowledgeable Rav would understand that these risks do exist, and there is room within halacha for parents to say that THEY BELIEVE vaccines may cause harm.


That is the question to ask if you are going to put your child in school without vaccinating for religious reasons. I'm not concerned with whether or not you vaccinate, I'm concerned with whether you use religion as an excuse. And if you do, you should have a rabbi give you a psak that vaccinating violates some sort of halacha. Otherwise it's highly disingenuous.
Back to top

leomom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 10:19 pm
I think it's very honest to say something like what amother above (if it's still in this thread after being split) in the letter for the school file. It's not disingenuous to say that Jewish law requires each person to make decisions to guard their health -- in fact, I am proud of being Jewish when I read that and know that it is true.

It would be different if someone said, "Jewish law forbids vaccination" -- obviously that's not the case.

bebe3, I won't debate vaccines in general here, because we have had extensive conversations on the subject quite recently, and there's no point in typing it all over again. Several of your statements are inaccurate (but many people assume they are true if they haven't delved further into it). If you haven't read the other threads, I'd recommend it! You might not agree with everything you read (obviously), but it will show you another side.
Back to top

bebe3




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 11:13 pm
I do know the other side. I myself am in a happy medium. I vaccinate my children for everything except the flu shot. My doctors office does not recommend giving the flu shot unless a child is severely at risk, like asthmatic kids and such. I don't let them give my children 3-4 shots at once because I think babies are small and it is still a foreign substance going into their bodies. I come back within the month to get the rest. When I have a newborn I do not let them vaccinate my baby for hepatitis as their is no need because b"h I am a healthy person. My doctor starts hepatitis shots at 2 months. I have one dd who would get fevers from her shots so my doctors office was extremely accommodating in spacing out her shots so as not to have that effect. I agree with you to not start a debate here, to each their own, it is just something that I can't comprehend, that's all.
Back to top

leomom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 11:30 pm
OK, that helps me understand you better.

But it makes me think of the old line about anyone to the right of you being a fanatic, and anyone to the left being a heretic...

You've made personal choices about where to draw the line with vaccines. I make my personal choices. You don't understand why anyone would make choices that are different from yours (and express your judgment of others in very strong terms), but I respect your choices and everyone else's. Vaccination is a complicated issue.

And to be fair, I think in reality you are probably more accepting than you came across in your post, because you were trying to make a point.
Back to top

leomom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 11:32 pm
bebe3 wrote:
And I would like to know one single prominent Rav who says its assur to vaccinate your children.


Is there a prominent Rav who says it's assur not to? (And if there is, is he my Rav?)
Back to top

GAMZu




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 11:50 pm
Quote:
But it makes me think of the old line about anyone to the right of you being a fanatic, and anyone to the left being a heretic...

You've made personal choices about where to draw the line with vaccines. I make my personal choices. You don't understand why anyone would make choices that are different from yours (and express your judgment of others in very strong terms), but I respect your choices and everyone else's

Thumbs Up

True, true, true.
Very often I see people saying that a certain concept is crazy, and they know because they researched it and chose to do abc. And anything beyond abc is WRONG.
Back to top

bebe3




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 11:52 pm
It's not that I don't understand people who make choices that are not the same as mine. I don't expect people to cut their kids nails every sunday like I do mine (kind of a dumb analogy, but I think you might get it..) When it comes to health and children, these things really freak me out. I'm not preaching for people to vaccinate because I think they should (kind of why I don't check out forums that I don't agree with). When it comes to judging though, I am embarrassed to say but in regards to immunizations, I do. I know some families where I live that don't immunize, don't use over the counter medicines Etc..Their kids are always sick (I do not mean this as a generalization, I don't know enough people or statistics to back it up for more than the families I know of here) I judge their situation and lack of medicine and my kids don't play with them. Not because I think they should be ostracized, but for fear of my own kids catching whatever it is they have. So if people don't want to immunize, that is their decision. All I am saying is it is putting future generations at risk.
In regards to Rav not stating otherwise...It's not a halachic issue for a Rav to discuss.
Back to top

flowerpower




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 11:55 pm
If you don't want to vaccinate, fine(not fine you're a little selfish-we know what happened to that one guy who came from overseas and spread the disease to a nice amount of people here) but to lie and write a thing that is not true is something you should think twice about.
Back to top

leomom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 28 2008, 11:59 pm
bebe3 wrote:
It's not that I don't understand people who make choices that are not the same as mine. I don't expect people to cut their kids nails every sunday like I do mine (kind of a dumb analogy, but I think you might get it..) When it comes to health and children, these things really freak me out. I'm not preaching for people to vaccinate because I think they should (kind of why I don't check out forums that I don't agree with). When it comes to judging though, I am embarrassed to say but in regards to immunizations, I do.


OK, then at least my impression was accurate!

Quote:
I know some families where I live that don't immunize, don't use over the counter medicines Etc..Their kids are always sick (I do not mean this as a generalization, I don't know enough people or statistics to back it up for more than the families I know of here) I judge their situation and lack of medicine and my kids don't play with them. Not because I think they should be ostracized, but for fear of my own kids catching whatever it is they have.


I've said in another thread that it is a parent's RESPONSIBILITY to keep their child away from other children who may pose a risk because of having symptoms, etc. If you know that this particular family may be contagious with one thing or another, you should keep your children away. But you definitely can't (shouldn't) generalize that to all families who don't immunize.

Quote:
So if people don't want to immunize, that is their decision. All I am saying is it is putting future generations at risk.


Why is it putting future generations at risk? We actually don't have any data on the long-term effects of mass vaccination. I'm not sure what you're referring to here.

Quote:
In regards to Rav not stating otherwise...It's not a halachic issue for a Rav to discuss.


I agree, but you were the one who asked the question I quoted in the first place...
Back to top

leomom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 29 2008, 12:01 am
flowerpower wrote:
If you don't want to vaccinate, fine(not fine you're a little selfish-we know what happened to that one guy who came from overseas and spread the disease to a nice amount of people here) but to lie and write a thing that is not true is something you should think twice about.


People keep saying this, and I and others have tried to clarify what actually is written in religious exemptions...

What exactly is the lie?
Back to top

flowerpower




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 29 2008, 12:05 am
Can you tell me in one sentence what exactly it is?
Back to top
Page 1 of 2 1  2  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Chossidmom's thread about childhood vaccines 521 Thu, Feb 29 2024, 10:12 pm View last post
Do you give vaccines if your child has a cold?
by amother
46 Wed, Feb 28 2024, 10:58 pm View last post
[ Poll ] Allergies and childhood vaccines
by amother
23 Sun, Feb 25 2024, 2:43 pm View last post
Resources for Self-Study of Torah Shebaalpeh & Halacha Biyun
by amother
8 Thu, Jan 18 2024, 2:16 pm View last post
Halacha question
by amother
1 Thu, Jan 04 2024, 4:10 pm View last post