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"Literary" poetry

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poemmom

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 10:27 am

For those of you who read secular literature, do you read poetry?
Not "light" humorous or "inspirational" verse, but poetry in the tradition of secular literature, either with or without Jewish themes.

If so, what do you read?

Are you MO or another type of Judaism?

(For those who DON'T read secular lit., I respect that but please don't post in this thread. Thanks!)

Clarissa

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 10:31 am

I read and love a lot of poetry.

Clarissa

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 10:37 am

Oops, just noticed you asked what poets. Here are some I like:

Pablo Neruda
Rumi
Lynn Emanuel
Jane Kenyon
Raymond Carver
Sharon Olds
Tess Gallagher
Yehuda Amichai
Langston Hughes

and others.

Last edited by Clarissa on Fri, Oct 31 2008, 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total

Maya

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 10:40 am

I don't read poetry, but am always thinking that I should.

The transit system has a Poetry in Motion program which displays poems by popular poets. I'm sometimes blown away by some of the lines, and copy them into my spiral, but I usually forget to look them up online.

(this will take a while to load)

http://www.mta.info/mta/pim/im.....n.pdf

Clarissa

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 12:40 pm

What about you, poemmom? Between your name and this post, I'm assuming your answer might be yes?

poemmom

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 12:45 pm

Good list, Clarissa! 8) You have a few I haven't read & have to check out. I also like Galway Kinnell, Donald Revell, Dan Pagis... And the Dead White Idontcareifyouthinktheyreantisemitic Guys-- Eliot, Hopkins...

Clarissa

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 12:48 pm

I'll check yours out, too. I used to post on a board, and I once started a thread asking everyone to type their favorite poem there. I loved reading them, and they introduced me to some new poets I hadn't read. I wonder if that would fly here.

poemmom

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 1:02 pm

That's a great idea. Do you think more Imamothers are interested?

In a related thought,I have been wondering why there is a resurgence of Christian writing, but not so much Jewish. It is very easy to find good new contemporary "literary" poetry by people who consider themselves religious Christians. But poetry and other literature that is called Jewish is more often by completely secular Jews (not even from the liberal denominations, but rather agnostic or athiest.)

There is a facinating book called "The Dream of the Poem" which is translations of medieval Jewish poetry from Spain -- these were observant Jews who wrote on both religious and secular topics.

Is there an audience for such poetry if it were being written today? And is that audience only MO and non-orthodox?

Clarissa

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 1:06 pm

poemmom wrote:

I want to check out that book. It sounds like something my father would have loved. I don't know if there would be an audience today. It seems that frum people feel more and more uncomfortable engaging in pursuits that aren't Jewish in nature, so reading poems on secular topics might not fit the bill, even if written by frum Jews. And secular, or less religious Jews aren't so focused on what frum Jews might have to offer, or spiritual self-expression, if you know what I mean. I'm not saying this well.

I also feel that the move to being more restrictive as far as what is said would hurt frum poets, the same way the literature (for instance, short stories) seem to be limited. So much is written by people who don't seem to be all that well-crafted, at least from what I hear here, in critiques.

I think you should start the poem thread. I know I'd contribute, and maybe others will, as well. Thanks to the internet, if someone has a poem they liked but don't have handy, it's easy to locate. And if people aren't interested in poetry, at least you and I can share a few!

Last edited by Clarissa on Fri, Oct 31 2008, 1:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

Maya

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 1:09 pm

I'll share the little poems I have in my spiral which was copied from the ones in the trains. Smile

ShakleeMom

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 1:15 pm

I always looked at poems as the cheaters way out of writing a fine essay. I like the rhythmic sing-song to it when reading it and I enjoy how things fall into place and rhyme nicely but I prefer to read a zaftig essay of current events.

Clarissa

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 1:19 pm

A zaftig essay. I like that. Zaftig is a word I'd expect from a person on the verge of popping out a baby.

ShakleeMom

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 1:20 pm

Clarissa wrote:

A zaftig essay. I like that. Zaftig is a word I'd expect from a person on the verge of popping out a baby.

One the verge. Thanks for your consolations!

poemmom

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 1:20 pm

Clarissa wrote:

I think you should start the poem thread.

I read that and thought, Yes I will! Then I thought of some of my favorite poems... on this site.... You know?

Clarissa

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 1:22 pm

Do this. Post any poem that would be acceptable by board standards. Post the name of others. That way people can look by Googling, or choose not to.

poemmom

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 1:30 pm

Is any poetry acceptable by board standards? Or to put it more broadly, is literature --as art-- acceptable by non-MO orthodox Judaism today? Its not a matter of tznius, but a censorshp of ideas that I perceive in "acceptable" literature today.

I'm afraid there are so many ways to offend someone --even who the poet is could be offensive.

Clarissa

Fri, Oct 31 2008, 1:36 pm

Do what I did in my music thread. Just put in the thread title that it's for posters who read and enjoy secular poetry. Then nobody will read who finds it problematic. And if you post a poem that is particularly not religious (if you know what I mean), post a warning at the start of the poem. That's how I handle movies, tv and stuff like that.

Ruchel

Sat, Nov 01 2008, 10:59 am

Bear in mind our cultures are different, and up to recently many went to public school, etc, but I find a good number of charedi women to be into (secular/non Jewish) poetry. Occasionally, a man too. I think I knew a charedi rav who also had a MA in French poetry.

Aidelmom

Sat, Nov 01 2008, 3:36 pm

poemmom wrote:

Is Literary poetry only one type of Poetry? While I don't b'n read contemporary literature I do enjoy old poetry and classics. Did there used to be a censorship of ideas in earlier times even in the secular world? (my criteria I think would be- clean and no apikorsus - some will say what that is is debatable)

I would be interested to see a thread on poems as Clarissa described.

poemmom

Sun, Nov 02 2008, 6:38 am

Ruchel -- That is fascinating, and great! Very Happy

It might be culture, or it might be that as a BT I'm not as familiar with where different people hold.

Aidelmom -- I wrote "literary" so people wouldn't think I meant either funny poems for simchas, or other poems that were not meant seriously (even though a "literary" poem can certainly be humorous too.) I also wanted to signify that these are poems written with some awareness of the literary tradition of their language (ie., for a poem in English, some familiarity with English language poetry that came before.) Obviously this is very subjective, and we might not all agree on what fits in that category, which is fine and appropriate.
But in any case: "old classics?" -- Definitely!!!

You've all convinced me ... look for the thread soon. I want to kick it off with a good one!

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