Learning l'iluey nishmas ...

mugsisme

Sat, Nov 29 2008, 4:11 pm

I don't have the full list of names. If some one can PM them to me, I will put them here. (The names I have are all with the mothers names. We need the names of the fathers.)

I think instead of us sitting around and feeling so sad, we need to take action. The fredike Rebbe said after a great tragedy there is a huge power in the world. (I am quoting this wrong, as I don't remember the exact wording.) After the holocaust, the Jews should have asked for Moshiach. So that is what I am doing now. I am begging Hashem to please take us out of this galus.

It would be nice if we could learn a little each day in memory of all those who died in Mumbai. Perkei avos is mishnayos, which is an aliyah for the neshamos. I will start, and hopefully someone will add each day.

This vort comes from Visions of the Fathers by R' Abraham Twerski, MD, put into my own words.

Perek Alef, mishna alef:
Moshe received the Torah from Sinai and gave it over to Yehosua; Yehosua transmitted it to the Elders; the Elders to the Prophets; and the Prophets transmitted it to the Anshai Knesset Hagadola. They said 3 things, Be deliberate in judgment; develop many disciples, and make a fence around the Torah.

Rabbi Twerksi explains that we need to understand even more so in our generation why the need to know the laws were transmitted directly from Sinai. He says that it is well understood certain commandments would come only from Hashem, like Shabbos, matzah, shofar, succah. But there are many ethical behaviors that would not need to be given from G-d, like do not murder, do not lie, do not steal, etc. The Talmud states that if we had not be given the Torah, we would have learned these behaviors from the animals, like the dove and the ant. (Eruvin 100b). Rabbi Twerski points out in todays world, things have changed drastically over several generations. It used to be thought of as murder for a mother to kill her unborn child. It used to be thought of as murder to help assist an elderly or sick person to kill themselves. However, now a days it has become not only acceptable for a mother to kill her child (if she doesn't want it), it is even her right and the government provides the funds to pay for it! Assisted suicide is becoming an accepted norm. The reason he gives for this is that a few generations ago, people had a life expectancy of about 40 years. To kill a child was not a good idea, because infant mortality was high, as was other childhood diseases. Killing a child was killing a vital commodity, people. Things have changed now, in that the infant mortality rate is dropping. Many childhood diseases are gone. However, the older population is now getting to be too much. It is a strain on the younger generation to provide them with all the social and health benefits they need. Hence, the approval of assisted suicide.

Quote:

Yes the Talmud states that had the Torah not been given we would have been "expected" to learn proper behavior from observation of nature, but would mankind have lived up to these expectations? Social pressures such as those noted above may well have blinded mankind from deriving ethical behavior from observation of animals. Temptation may have led mankind to emulate the dogs and tigers rather than the doves and ants.

Ethics and morals in each society may evolve and change over time. Our Torah ethics are morals will not. There is no way we can change any of the laws passed down to us directly from Sinai. Not one law, not a single sentence, not even one letter may be altered. The laws Hashem gave us at Sinai are the still the laws we are expected to keep today, as they are eternal.

Ruchel

Sun, Nov 30 2008, 10:08 am

Quote:

After the holocaust, the Jews should have asked for Moshiach

They didn't? Confused

They asked before, and during, after (those who remained frum/didn't hate G-d).

Comparisons between Mumbai and the Holocaust is also horrifying to anyone of European descent.

Ruchel

Sun, Nov 30 2008, 10:10 am

Quote:

The reason he gives for this is that a few generations ago, people had a life expectancy of about 40 years.

People who survived infacy lived much longer.

Quote:

To kill a child was not a good idea, because infant mortality was high, as was other childhood diseases. Killing a child was killing a vital commodity, people.

still there was about as much abortions and much much more infanticide.

Quote:

It is a strain on the younger generation to provide them with all the social and health benefits they need. Hence, the approval of assisted suicide.

Few countries approve of it, unless MAYBE the person is dying and in horrible pain. It's NOT about killing the old!

mugsisme

Sun, Nov 30 2008, 10:34 am

Ruchel wrote:

Comparisons between Mumbai and the Holocaust is also horrifying to anyone of European descent.

I did not in any way, shape, or form mean to compare the two events. I was pointing out that after a great tragedy there is a tremendous strength given over to klal yisroel.

If no one else wants to prepare a short dvar Torah on the next mishna I will do it. Anyone?

octopus

Sun, Nov 30 2008, 10:40 am

I'll take gimmel for tomorrow.

avigailmiriam

Sun, Nov 30 2008, 12:52 pm

mugsisme wrote:

It used to be thought of as murder for a mother to kill her unborn child. It used to be thought of as murder to help assist an elderly or sick person to kill themselves. However, now a days it has become not only acceptable for a mother to kill her child (if she doesn't want it), it is even her right and the government provides the funds to pay for it! Assisted suicide is becoming an accepted norm.

This just isn't true. Abortion has existed at least since the time of the Ancient Greeks. Exposing infant children who were sick, undesirable, etc. was a common practice in Ancient Greece. It was an accepted practice and the governmental system supported and encouraged such behavior as a way to keep the population down.

Old people removing themselves from the population was not uncommon. Spartan men who did not die in battle often left the colony to go die; it was a common practice among the Inuit, etc.

Ruchel

Sun, Nov 30 2008, 1:05 pm

I saw a horrible movie about Asians who abandon their old parents to die in the moutains Mad

avigailmiriam

Sun, Nov 30 2008, 1:17 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I saw a horrible movie about Asians who abandon their old parents to die in the moutains Mad

Remember, in some cultures, there was a good reason for doing this. Among the Inuit, at least, winter is a brutal, brutal time with limited food. And old person with only a few more years to survive is not the place where, logically, one wants to concentrate resources. There are also cultures where going out to die is a part of their religious theology, for better or worse.

And Asians, which Asians? It's a rather broad group...

octopus

Sun, Nov 30 2008, 1:18 pm

Are any of you ladies actually going to take a mishna? Confused

avigailmiriam

Sun, Nov 30 2008, 1:21 pm

octopus wrote:

Are any of you ladies actually going to take a mishna? Confused

I'm not. I do, however, want to discuss the d'var torah posted which is factually wrong.

octopus

Sun, Nov 30 2008, 1:23 pm

well, if no one took mishna beis, I will do beis tomorrow instead of gimmel.

mugsisme

Sun, Nov 30 2008, 2:49 pm

avigailmiriam wrote:

octopus wrote:

Are any of you ladies actually going to take a mishna? Confused

I'm not. I do, however, want to discuss the d'var torah posted which is factually wrong.

Feel free to contact Rabbi Twerski if you have a problem with his sefer. Please, I beg of you, do NOT destroy the achdus we all felt last week as we united together and davened. This thread is supposed to be for an aliyah for the neshamos of all those who perished. Fighting and strife will only add to the darkness. If you choose not to take a mishna, so be it. But please do not knock those who do.

bubby

Sun, Nov 30 2008, 2:52 pm

Avigailmiriam, maybe you should get in touch wih Rabbi Twersky directly for clarification if you believe this is factually wrong. In addition, if anyone wants to take a Mishna L'ilui Nishmas the Kedoshim HY"D, do so. If not, stop criticizing. Mugsisme is, as far as I can see, the only one who is taking this horror & trying to bring something positive out of it, & all I can see is griping, nitpicking, and arguments. What happened to the Achdus??? I'll take Gimmel (can't pretend it'll be any good, but I'll certainly give it a go.)

chabadshb

Sun, Nov 30 2008, 3:13 pm

bubby wrote:

I cannot take a Mishna, but I`ll learn from them Wink

Ruchel

Mon, Dec 01 2008, 4:29 am

avigailmiriam wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

I saw a horrible movie about Asians who abandon their old parents to die in the moutains Mad

I wish I remembered which ones.

Ruchel

Mon, Dec 01 2008, 5:37 am

R' Dov Lumbroso-Roth and all the team of Bnei Torah has decided to dedicate all the shiruim and learnings of this week for the raising of the soul of all the victims.

Including

Rav Gabriel et Rivkah Holtzberg
Arié Leib (Leibouch) Teitelbaum
Yocheved Orpaz
Ben-Tsion Kroman
Norma Schwartzbelt Rabinovitz (Mexican citizen)

http://www.chiourim.com/
http://www.guemara.com/
http://www.techouvot.com/

octopus

Mon, Dec 01 2008, 8:11 am

Disclaimer: I do not have an extensive library available at home right now and sorry if this is very simplistic.

Perek 1 mishna 2: Rabbi Shimon Hatzadik said: The world is supported on three things: torah, avodah, and gemilus chasadim.

Torah: The world could not exist without torah learning. I have heard that one of the reasons that there are different time zones in the world is so that there is constant torah learning 24 hours a day. If we all woke up and went to sleep at the same time, ch'v there could be a point during the day where there would be no torah learning. This way if we are all sleeping in america, someone is up and learning in Israel.

I would also like to add that when we make birchas hatorah in the morning (blessings on the torah) we say, "la'asok b'divrei torah"(to be busy with divrei torah) and not lilmod divrei torah (to learn divrei torah). We are busy with divrei torah- it includes doing a dvar mitzvah. So even if we aren't learning, but doing mitzvot, we are still supporting the world.

Avoda: This refers to the avoda (karbanos or sacrafices) in the beis hamikdash. We don't have the beis hamikdash today but "unshalma parim sifsoseinu"- tefillah is instead of karbanos, today.

Gemilus chassadim: acts of loving kindness.

We need all three for the world to exist.

bubby

Mon, Dec 01 2008, 8:21 am

Octopus, thank you! Very nice!

mugsisme

Mon, Dec 01 2008, 11:11 am

yasher koach Octopus! Next up, Bubby. who is taking the next mishna the day after tomorrow?

mugsisme

Mon, Dec 01 2008, 8:47 pm

from bubby:

Quote:

Perek Aleph, Mishna Gimmel

Antigonos of Socho received the tradition from Shimon Hatzaddik. He used to say Do not be like servants who serve their master for the sake of receiving a reward. Rather, be like servants who serve their master without the intention of receiving a reward. And let reverence for Heaven (literally, the fear of Heaven) be upon you.

This Mishna is an expression of mili dechassidusa, pious conduct beyond the letter of the Law. It teaches that although every Mitzva generates a reward, one’s focus shouldn’t be on the reward but on the fact that he has been found worthy to serve G-d.

The reward here can also be understood as referring to spiritual attainments: the love & fear of G-d. Just as a person should not have in mind the material rewards he will receive for observance, so too he should not focus on the spiritual benefits.

(Sichos, Shabbos Parshas Pinchas, 5737)

When a servant fulfills all his duties without any help from his master, it is permissible for him to expect a reward. However, when the master does the work & the servant’s help is minimal, or so negligible that it can be disregarded, what kind of reward can he request? The Master is, of course, HaKodesh Baruch Hu, and in serving the Master, we know that the majority of the work is done by the Holy One, Himself. When we fulfill a Mitzva we are merely assisting Our Creator. Therefore, it is inappropriate & crass to ask for a reward.

(Kesser Shem Tov)

There is no question that the Kedoshim were serving Hakodesh Baruch Hu to the ultimate fulfillment on every level, & never sought any reward. As the Alter Rebbe said, “I do not want your Gan Eden; I do not want Your World to Come. I want only You.” They are now with Him, sitting by His side, along with all the Kedoshim from generations past.

Yasher koach Bubby! It only takes about 10-15 minutes. Anyone else want to take Perek Alef, mishna daled? I am not sure if I will have time to do it tomorrow, but will if no one else volunteers. It can go up tomorrow night or Wednesday daytime.