etiquette question for israelim

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Etiquette question for israelim

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amother

Wed, Dec 03 2008, 5:32 am

We are in kiruv community chutz laaretz and I have been hosting many young israelis for shabbos and YT meals, some of them staying over. While a very small number of them bring us flowers or chocolate or wine, but I have never heard from them afterwards. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about backpackers who are on the road but someone who lives here.

We also have young students who are not israelis who would come as guests for meals, and in most cases they would call us motzei shabbat or on sundays to thank us for the meals. In some cases I even get actual thank-you cards.

Come to think of it, when we give gifts (usually checks) to our nephews and nieces for their simchas, they do send us proper hand-written thank-you cards, again except for the israeli branch of the family. We gave our niece in Israel a rather generous check of $500 for her wedding last year, and another $180 for her first baby. It's been nearly 6months but I haven't heard either from her or her mother (my SIL). Where I come from, I was taught you need to write thank-you cards, and we got ours done within 2months of our wedding.

Is this a cultural norm in Israel not to bother with thank you cards or calls? I personally am not offended but just for derech eretz' sake, someone should tell tham that it is an accepted common courtsey. Just curious.

BennysMommy

Wed, Dec 03 2008, 5:35 am

I don't thank you cards are the norm here in Argentina either. Of course that doesn't mean I think it's right.

Marion

Wed, Dec 03 2008, 5:37 am

It is not the norm in Israel. I tried very hard, after my wedding and the birth of my kids, to write notes at LEAST to those outside Israel, as that is how I was raised. I think I was successful. I also included in that list those who I know also are from outside the country originally who would expect it. However I didn't feel bad if I didn't send one to an Israeli. When I next saw the person I made a point of thanking them for their gift/cheque and told them how grateful we were (basically gave a verbal thank you note).

Raisin

Wed, Dec 03 2008, 5:42 am

At least you know they are coming. Many times I invite israelis and they do not respond but turn up nevertheless.

I wouldn't expect thank you cards, but a lot of them do bring flowers or a small gift.

maybe in israel it is not such a big deal when you do favours? (Personally it does nothing for me to know that a harrassed new mother with a colicy baby is missing out on sleep to write me a thank you card. A chassan and kalla don't have that excuse though) they know they will reciprocate the favour when they have an opputunity.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Dec 03 2008, 5:43 am

I never knew it to be a norm to say thank you for a shabbat meal or stay over. or rather never experienced it, here in israel or in america.

shalhevet

Wed, Dec 03 2008, 5:47 am

Yup, it is a cultural thing. I also don't like it and I encourage my own children to write thank you cards, but I no longer expect them.

Israelis are just laid back - they don't think it's a big deal that you are hosting them, and they won't think it's a big deal if they host you. I could describe it as feeling comfortable - we're all one big happy family - when your daughter or mother gives you a present, you don't send her a thank you card, right?

I don't think it is in line with Torah that stresses hakaras hatov, but that's how it is here.

BennysMommy

Wed, Dec 03 2008, 5:48 am

BennysMommy wrote:

I don't thank you cards are the norm here in Argentina either. Of course that doesn't mean I think it's right.

I'm also talking about thank you cards for gifts. For Shabbos meals or sleepovers I never sent or received thank you cards. We usually give a small gift, flowers or wine when we go to someone. Not everyone does though when they come to us and I definitely don't expect it.

Imaonwheels

Wed, Dec 03 2008, 5:52 am

No its not even heard of. Usually a thank you for having me and maybe a gift is ok and I am fine with that. They expressed gratitude without mefornessing hallmark. I don't like the whole card thing anyway.

Kiruv families and those who host students shouldn't makpid on things like this IMO.

baba

Wed, Dec 03 2008, 5:57 am

I've never heard of calling up after shabbes to thank again, and that's coming from a pretty formal European country. Though one does bring a small gift. In Israel it is different and I never even think about it. It's like Shalhevet said.

yo'ma

Wed, Dec 03 2008, 6:00 am

I never even heard of getting/sending a thank you card after going to someone for shabbos. The bring a gift=thank you. They say the food is delicious=thank you. They say thank you before leaving=thank you. If they come back=a bigger thank you. How many thank yous does a person need/want?

Strawberry

Wed, Dec 03 2008, 6:24 am

I grew up in NY and we always wrote thank you cards for gifts but not for shabbos meals. We thank the hosts verbally and that's it.

amother

Maroon

Wed, Dec 03 2008, 6:28 am

Actually, when we first moved to Israel, we would be invited places all the time (b/c we were staying somewhere where we couldn't make SHabbos, for whatever reason), and we'd always bring wine, or another thank-you gift, like we used to in chu"l. Until one of our friends told us, "Stop that already!" People are happy to have you, and they feel uncomfortable when you buy them stuff for it. Just have them back when you move into your new place - which we did (where applicable), of course. If you want to offer to make dessert or a side-dish, discuss it with the host earlier in the week, but that's it.

Last edited by amother on Wed, Mar 13 2019, 2:43 am; edited 1 time in total

drumjj

Wed, Dec 03 2008, 6:32 am

I have a lot of students for lunch etc on shabbos and also israelies for the past almost four years and I think I can count on my hands the number of times ppl have either brought a gift. and a thank u card well that happened once. and this is in the uk where ppl are supposed to be very polite

mandksima

Wed, Dec 03 2008, 6:42 am

I asked a friend this question today regarding thank you cards for baby gifts. I was very careful to write notes within the first 6 weeks to all those in chutz laaretz and as well as those in Israel that came from outside our yishuv. I must have received 20 gifts just from inside our yishuv and that's where my question lies. Is it necessary/expected to write thank yous to my neighbors, friends, and shul members who were generous to give us a gift? I said thank you for all of them to their faces when they brought them over. Most presents were an outfit or little baby toy. I hope it is ok. My friend said no one expects it here and the first thank you is enough. My relatives in the States would have been incensed if they didn't receive a proper thank you and it would never occur to me to be remiss as it is common curtesy to write them. Here though, I think it would surprise an Israeli to get one. I'm hoping that the American olim here think like the Israelis.

daamom

Wed, Dec 03 2008, 6:46 am

When I sent thank-you cards to everyone who had made me dinners after my daughter was born, and to everyone who gave a gift or contributed something to the kiddush, I got such incredulous responses. It was clearly something noone does around here.
I'd do it again, anyway. It's my way of showing appreciation. But I don't expect it of anyone.

msctwg

Thu, Dec 04 2008, 10:27 am

I just wanted to add my 2 sense for all that it is worth. I do live in Israel, and was brought up to write thank you cards. In israel, people get really uptight if you thank them too much. They are like ok stop it already. People in israel do things b/c it is the way we are, not b/c you expect to recieve something in return. It is a matter of survival. Like someone said they are more laid back. That doesn't mean that bad manners are acceptable. they are not. But if you weren't brought up with these things then you won't know that it is the norm now will you. Trust me though, Israeli's are definatly there for you when you neeed them.
Very Happy

levial

Thu, Dec 04 2008, 11:41 am

When I read this it caused me to reflect and associate it on cultural difference with Israelis on "dropping over" to visit

When DH and I go to Israel for a visit, we always call before going to someone's house (unless they are 2 doors away)..."Hi, are you going to be home? Baby is awake and we wanted to say hi." This eliminated wasted time driving to someone who's not there. Even "drop in" visits calls (5 min warning) gave someone time to straighten their house, send a child for a bottle of diet coke or whatever or to tell us they're just going out, and come back in 2 hours.

Israelis would drop by our apartment, sometimes insulted if we were literally in coats on our way out of the dira. This American is not derailing the evening for some unplanned distant cousin drop in visit.

Whereas our Israeli-in-America friends come by at all hours, drop by, don't call. First I fought it then I "bought it" (as in, always had some hidden from DH package of nuts, an osem cake or something to offer by way of food).

Therefore (I knew you were all wondering what my point was, here's the dissertation thesis)...if the culture is to drop by with little planning, serve whatever you've got...and you've invited them for a meal or three with a bed to sleep on, and they are younger, I'd not count on anything, that the expectation is you've given what you can and no more, and their presence is present enough.

I wouldn't expect thank you notes. When we are guests, we bring a gift of wine or offer to help make something (cholent). The first stay we might give a lavish gift, as housing a small family is more than just a single guy or woman. We praise food at the table and thank at the very end, and that's it. If it was someone I know, they usually say after a few times to "just come don't bring." Now I am reading these posts wondering if I should write a thank you note.

The question is (ironic tone) are you writing THEM a thank you note for the gift and hoping to see them again in the note?

Lani22

Thu, Dec 04 2008, 11:52 am

When I was a student living in Israel I would always send a thank you note to the family that hosted me for shabbas. I also would bring a small gift. Hosting people for shabbas when you yourself have a family is a lot of work and I guess I just wanted the hostess to know I REAlly appreciated it.

sped

Thu, Dec 04 2008, 3:22 pm

This is really embaressing embarrassed

I am married now almost 6 months and never wrote thank you cards - I don't even know where to buy them here. I really wasn't able to get to it (even without the colicky baby - one never knows what is going on in another's life...). Is it too late? I really am mortified - particularly for those in Chu"l... Any ideas on what I should do??

Raisin

Thu, Dec 04 2008, 3:27 pm

sped wrote:

This is really embaressing embarrassed

I don't think 6 months is too late. if they are in chul and you are in israel they might think they got lost in the mail. (better idea...apologize for them being late.)

just buy plain blank cards and envelopes (you can get printed ones with your name on if you like from a printer) or ones already saying thank you on them from a stationary shop.

you can also print your own on your computer if you are good at that stuff.

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