Jewish Geography Ettiquette

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Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette

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amother

Sat, Dec 06 2008, 11:40 pm

Someone started a thread on the BT forum for us to discuss our pet peeves, and we discovered that many of us share a common pet peeve: intrusive Jewish Geography questions.

Now of course playing Jewish Geography is understandable. I also like to find out if I share any similarities with people I meet. However, once it becomes obvious that the person you are talking to does not share a common background in whatever area and you keep asking for details--that is called prying and is totally inappropriate.

Let me give you some examples of what we mean:

Example 1:

Sara: Where are you from? (totally reasonable question)
Rivka: I am from Yehupittsville, Wyoming
Sara: Oh, I know some people from Yehupittsville. What is your maiden name? (Also appropriate)
Rivka: McGregor
Sara: Oh, so are you a giyores? (totally inappropriate) What made you decide to become Jewish? (even worse)

Example 2:

Sara: Where are you from? (totally reasonable question)
Rivka: I am from Yehupittsville, Wyoming
Sara: Oh, so did you go to Bais Yaakov of Yehupittsville (the only Jewish girls school there)? (also appropriate)
Rivka: No
Sara: So where did you go to school? (somewhat annoying, you really should have stopped at the no)
Rivka: Yehupittsville Public High School
Sara: Oh...are you a BT? (totally inappropriate) How did you become frum? (Even worse)

Example 3:

Sara: Where are you from? (totally reasonable question)
Rivka: I am from Yehupittsville, Wyoming
Sara: Oh, I didn't know any Jews lived in Yehupittsville. How big is the frum community there? (Somewhat annoying but understandable)
Rivka: Very small
Sara: Oh, so are you a BT? (totally inappropriate)

You get the idea.

Look, I understand that many of you think we are amazing and want to here are stories. But many of us don't want to be thought of as amazing--just normal. If we wanted to share our stories with every stranger we meet, we would do so.

avigailmiriam

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 12:33 am

I hate when frum people start asking about all the wild and crazy things I must have done back in the day. I was raised a traditional Jew. And before I was Orthodox, I was staid, geeky girl who spent more time in the library than anywhere else. I still am a staid geeky girl who spends too much time in the library. The most exciting thing I did in my pre-frum days was skipping my homework a few times and having peanut butter cups and potato chips for dinner every once in a while! Actually, I still do that...

I politely tell people who are nosy to mind their own business.

ShakleeMom

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 12:40 am

I’m so sorry, but this is the Yenta genre and there’s not much you can do to change them, however you can change YOU! How would you feel about saying you grew up in Alaska? And no you don’t know the Klein’s from anchorage?

I have an overactive imagination, I can pull it off. My mother for example, lost her father when she was very tiny, she doesn’t even remember him. When people ask what her maiden name is, she says “Gold*, but you wouldn’t know them” and that ends it right there.

catonmylap

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 12:53 am

Ok....so explain how the conversation should end-instead of

Sara: Oh, so are you a BT? (totally inappropriate)

I don't see why that should be a no-no question if the person is not coming from a place of putting you down or insulting you, or over-admiring you...etc.... Does everyone think that is wrong across the board(religious spectrum)? I can see how someone would be saying it and being insulting, but I also can see myself saying something like that and not being at all condescending about it....

amother

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 12:55 am

I would recommend moving onto the next topic.

Zus

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 12:58 am

Why would you even say that out loud, is what I wonder. Who cares??

Pickle Lady

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 12:59 am

I think the point is that if someone wants to share thier personal life then they would just sometimes you need to take a cue and just leave it.

amother

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 1:00 am

For example:

Sara: Where are you from? (totally reasonable question)
Rivka: I am from Yehupittsville, Wyoming
Sara: Oh, so did you go to Bais Yaakov of Yehupittsville (the only Jewish girls school there)? (also appropriate)
Rivka: No
Sara: So where did you go to school? (somewhat annoying, you really should have stopped at the no)
Rivka: Yehupittsville Public High School
Sara: Okay. So where do you live now?

Mimisinger

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 1:00 am

Let me tell you, as a bt, in my early days (what 12 years ago?) I literally wanted the earth to open up and swallow me whole when they asked what school I went to or where I grew up.

And as far as I know, if a bt or ger doesn't want people to know about their status, it's usser to ask. And, since you can't ask without knowing if they want you to ask. You can't ask!

grin

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 1:01 am

I think I usually stop at the "no" myself, since it's understandable by then that she's a BT and doesn't know my friends, which was the initial purpose of the conversation. (I guess I'm not much of a yenta.)

I do get asked a lot about other Lubov's around the world, or even in my hometown, and I just answer that I don't know almost any outside of my present city. I also explain that almost all the Lubov's that live now in my hometown didn't grown up there.

But then again, I'm not at all self-conscious of my status - there are many BT's and geirim in my community and it's no big deal.

ShakleeMom

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 1:01 am

amother wrote:

Sara: Okay. So where do you live now?

That takes tremendous self control and maturity. Not many people are like that only once they’ve surpassed personal struggles.

grin

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 1:06 am

I think it's Rivka that needs to steer the conversation away form herself by saying:

Rivka: Yehupittsville Public High School. And where are you from?

Mimisinger

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 1:12 am

ShakleeMom wrote:

amother wrote:

Sara: Okay. So where do you live now?

That takes tremendous self control and maturity. Not many people are like that only once they’ve surpassed personal struggles.

We are talking about adults here - not children! Maybe it's time these adults got a little self-control and maturity!

catonmylap

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 1:15 am

I don't know why Rivka can't say herself.....I didn't grow up frum, so we wouldn't know the same people and then steer the conversation to something else.

Do you see being BT as such a stigma that you can't say it yourself?

amother

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 1:17 am

catonmylap wrote:

Because not everyone wants to be known as a BT, particularly if they have been frum for the past twenty years.

TheBeinoni

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 1:22 am

catonmylap wrote:

I think OP's point is that people tend to pry too much to the point where it becomes impossible to just "steer the convo to something else".

It's not that being a BT is a stigma. But, some people are not comfortable sharing their past with anyone who asks. Plus, as someone else mentioned it is assur to ask or remind one of their past.

Inspired

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 2:14 am

hotmama wrote:

catonmylap wrote:

Absolutely. Why does the ger/ bt have to be your evening's entertainment with their interesting past?
Because that is what it ends up bing- your personal freak show.

grin

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 2:18 am

hotmama wrote:

I think OP's point is that people tend to pry too much to the point where it becomes impossible to just "steer the convo to something else".

the point is that it's not impossible - Rivka can re-steer the convo by probing into Sara's past instead.

mandksima

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 2:40 am

IMHO, non-charedim have almost no problem disclosing that they are BT as it usually has no bearing on shidduchim and acceptance into certain schools, etc. Charedim might or might not be judged unfavorably for the BT past ( no matter how innocent) and therefore would rather it not be divulged.

I personally don't care who knows what about me and anyway, it has been about 25 years and I grew up traditional so no crazy stories. My brother, however, is in the charedi Israeli world and it is better if unmentioned, as it serves no good purpose being brought up although I doubt he's "embarressed."

Imaonwheels

Sun, Dec 07 2008, 2:53 am

I have been BT for 30 years. If it comes up I have no problem. I do not have to tell it to the families my children date because they know. Somethings are always known. I actually use my BT status as an aid. When a woman comes in to my shiur and feels so different as a recent or potential BT and then sees with her own eyes that you become just like the other frum people and there won't be an identifying mark on you unless you put it there.

As to telling my story I did it publicly only twice. At the beginning the second time I asked that I not be pried for details that I do not offer myself. I tell it straight that some things are personal and others are unnecessary.

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