what should I do tenant not paying rent?

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 11:25 am

My tenant has been unemployed for 3 years now and lives in a big 4 bedroom aprtment. We get a section8 (govt subsidized rent) check for $1200- and they should be giving us $500 but haven't for almost 3 years with the exception of giving us a few hundred dollars on 5 sep. occasions. Everytime we approach them they tell us how they have no money, etc. They are frum nice people but we can't afford to pay our bills and mortgage like this. The wife also has no luck with finding a job and neither one of them will take just ANY job, it's got to be to their specifications. Also we definitrly haven't been able to give them a rent raise and these apartment are now going for $2000. What should I do? I'm in this section bec. I need to remain anon.

Fabulous

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 11:29 am

As much as they are frum people and it's nice to allow them to stay, you do need to worry about your own bills as well. You have to put your foot down and tell them that if they cannot afford such a large apt. they should get a smaller one (although $500 a month,imo is amazing, for anything). You have to give them a time frame to leave and eventually when they are on their feet to pay back what's owed slowly (although if you can afford it you might want to forgive that debt).
JMHO.

Fox

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 11:56 am

I would add that these seem to be the types of people for whom you will need to "dot the I's and cross the t's". In other words, I wouldn't trust them to leave quietly and express appreciation for your patience!

Start by consulting with a rav, preferably one who has some influence with the tenants. Explain that you would prefer not to embarrass the tenants by having to take them to a bais din or pursue a legal eviction. Hopefully, he will encourage them to make other housing arrangements within a reasonable time.

At the same time, find out all the details needed to pursue an eviction, and speak with the rav about a timetable for pursuing this option if the tenants don't honor their end of any agreement.

Above all: document, document, document. Send a written summary of every conversation to each involved party via certified mail, if needed. In a better world, these people would have quietly vacated the apartment when they could no longer afford it. But if they've stayed there for three years without paying, I have a feeling they're not too embarrassed to cause a ruckus!

creativemommyto3

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 12:00 pm

Pineapple wrote:

amother wrote:

The wife also has no luck with finding a job and neither one of them will take just ANY job, it's got to be to their specifications.

That is there problem not yours

You should not have to loose out because of this

How does the OP know that ? could it be that it's her judgement?

ss321

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 12:07 pm

amother, if you want you can PM me. we had a situation (although it wasnt for not paying rent it was for doing other illegal things in the apartment and they were "frum"). After consulting with our Rov we were able get them out basicaly.

Your situation is different because htey are actually NOT PAYING RENT. its not like they are doing something that is "debatable" is it ok is it not etc. Whether you want to look like it like this or not, living there w/o paying you is geneiva. If you cant afford to live without the money, why is your not being able to live w/othe $ more important then their having to be your tenants? let them move somewhere else where the rent is cheaper and the apt for rent is smaller. You should really talk to your Rov about this, there is alot that can be done but it should be done w/ the utmost sensitivity. And itsnot like this has gone on for 3 mos, the guy lost his job b/c of the current financial situation and recession, you said this has been going on for TWO YEARS!! please sit down w/ your DH and a LOR and come up with a solution.

greenfire

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 12:08 pm

you are getting $1200 a month from the gov't for them ... why can't you work something else out ...

how are the rest of their tenancy ... are the good tenants - clean respectful ... is there s/t you could barter for the difference ...

sometimes it's nice to go the extra mile for someone in their situation - but I guess only you know if you can and they know what they can do ...

lack of communication and assumptions for 3 years is what would bother me ...

ss321

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 12:12 pm

creativemommyto3 wrote:

Maybe instead of kicking them out, you can barter things/services with them and work out a different type of payment being that you are getting some payment for the aparment. It's not like you are getting nothing .

thats a great idea. They say they will only take a job if it meets their 'specifications.' well guess what. you wanna live under our roof, you pay the rent, or you get a job. And here you go Im offering you one. (you dont need to say it quite like that) tell the wife youd love some cooking and cleaning help on a weekly basis, and accept that as "payment." is the husband handy?let him be your new plumber/electrician/fixit man. I think it was avigayilmiriam who posted recently that she has a similar arrangement with her landlord, in exchange for a decreased rent.

Atali

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 12:17 pm

You waited three years???

I would say that it is time to send an eviction letter. Give them whatever amount of time is required legally and halachicly and explain that if they start paying rent again (plus an extra $100 a month to pay off the debt) you will hold off on the eviction, but that if they fall behind again you will restart the process.

My guess is that they will suddenly find the money.

avigailmiriam

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 12:22 pm

ss321 wrote:

creativemommyto3 wrote:

I do. The difference is, this was offered to us at the beginning of our tenancy and we negotiated the terms. It would be much more difficult to make such an arrangement some months into our time there. And after three YEARS of someone not paying their rent, I'd worry that they were incapable of holding up their end of any bargain and I'm not sure I'd want to deal with the situation any more.

That being said, if you want to negotiate and trade work for rent money, set out clear terms right away. PM me if you want to hear the details of my arrangement with out landlords.

creativemommyto3

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 12:53 pm

avigailmiriam wrote:

ss321 wrote:

creativemommyto3 wrote:

Truth be told, the OP herself is also to blame for letting it go this long.. She should have gone for advice after 3-6 months. Also, in the name of being good to other jews, offer the oppurtunity to barter and THEN if they don't take that.. you will proceed further. At least you know that at least YOU are being a mentch.

This isn't just about money. Think about the zechus for parnasa that you might get by treating someone with true chesed in mind.

costanza

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 1:48 pm

I don't look at this situation in the same way as most of you do.

This property is a revenue producing property. This is a business set-up. The OP (I believe) and her husband did not buy this rorperty with the intention of letting nebachs use it at their leisure.

As unfortunate as their situation may be, it's not your concern. Bartering, to me, is ridiculous. The property has a value and that is what you should attempt to get each month. Their delinquency is grounds for eviction. Getting them out may be another story. I'd warn them that they have until the end of the month to leave (or find out what the laws are). I highly doubt these people are going to listen to a Rav - maybe they will listen to the sherriff.

BlumaG

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 1:49 pm

think OP was v nice by turning the other way for THREE yrs - where we are living now ourl andlords would NEVER put up with that. We don't have section 8 here and DH has been out of work for a long 16 months but somehow BH we make sure our bills are paid on TIME. That's a bigger concern to us than having fancy food etc.
The fact it's a frum family makes things alot harder to be strict bc your heart goes out to them but if it's taking from ur parnossa then you have 100% right to ask for your $$$ and if they can't pay it all they have to talk to you and see what they can afford...
hatzlacha

creativemommyto3

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 1:58 pm

I think that she shouldn't have let it go that long , and the fact that she has let it go this long is also not right. They were BOTH wrong. As a responsible adult, she should have went to a Rav at maximum 6 months after non payment. She has been getting some rent, it's not like she has not been getting nothing..

Maybe the tennant wife can take over the wifes daycare while she works and thereby saving her babysitting money?

instead of just looking at it money wise, look at the zechus of being nice to another jew will do. In these tough financial times, do you think that she will get another renter so fast? if she kicks this tennant out and doesn't get another renter then she will be out that 1200 dollars also..and then what?

Fabulous

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 2:05 pm

creativemommyto3 wrote:

If her apt. is in a Jewish neighborhood, that is not likely to happen. Even if she only gets 1500, which is little, for a nice 4 bedroom she can most likely get over 2000, she is still getting over 3,000 dollar a year more.

happyone

Tue, Dec 09 2008, 2:14 pm

It's time to get a rav involved. You are all defending the poor tenant which is nice. But if she is dependent on the rent to pay her own mortgage, there's no reason for her to do this chesed for this long. If the tenant cannot afford this payment maybe it's time for her to look for a cheaper apt elsewhere. She's not mechuyiv to barter services or anything else. I think three years is unreal to let this go.