A motivation (not a reason) to be frum

amother

Sun, Jan 22 2006, 1:44 pm

OK, I'm not really sure if I chose the right place to post this but since this is sort of my thoughts on the "Please help me..." thread I decided to put it in the same place.

What I'm thinking is that maybe the reason that a lot of people are frum is actually quite "pragmatic" in the sense that we think it is a way to have a happier life. So even if we don't have a reason, we have a motivation.

For example in a different thread ElTam said:

ElTam wrote:

It is our job as parents to help our children get through these years safely. I have always seen frumkeit as a choice I made in part to give my children a safe, loving and supportive upbringing. I know, having grown up in the secular world, the messages girls are given about how to look and how to act in order to be "accepted" and "popular." I don't want my daughter getting those messages, and choosing a lifestyle that stresses tznius and provides for gender separation and same-relations education is to me almost like a vaccine against those ideas.

Eltam I hope it was OK that I quoted from you... I don't think I changed your meaning by taking it out of context.

Other things that I have thought of:

A frum lifestyle is more likely to lead to marriage at an earlier stage in life (without years wasted on a going-nowhere relationship, dealing with a bf who doesn't want to commit, frantically looking for someone to have a child with as the biological clock ticks...)

A frum marriage is more likely to last through tough times and less likely to be broken up because of boredom or adultery.

Frum men are more likely to make more dedicated and responsible husbands and good fathers.

A frum lifestyle is more conducive to having and raising kids.

A frum lifestyle is more conducive to having many supportive social connections (big families, a shul which is a central part of life, a school with a dedicated parent body.)

There are so many caring people in the frum community that are willing to help only because the person who needs help is Jewish - sometimes it is so tangible that we are all one family.

Imamother - not joking, what other "internet community" could I belong to where there is so much natural trust and caring

Now I know that all of the things I said could be dissected and proved wrong etc. But on the whole, does this seem true? Do others agree? How much of a motivation do you think these sort of things are for you?

And I guess my question is if this is enough. For now at least. Because it's really hard to find answers, but I WANT to be frum even if I don't have answers.

Or is thinking this way just total lack of guts? (Fear of "leaving the fold"?)

Posted anonymously because I just basically poured my whole heart out... Please do not be too harsh with me!

613

Tue, Jan 24 2006, 5:24 pm

The truth is, it's HARD to be frum... all of those motivations you listed are motivations and what makes frum life easier and happier for us.
What is the REASON to be frum? Well, you'll need more of an intellectual/logical reason than just motivations. Are you asking being frum as opposed to being conservative or as opposed to being totally unaffiliated w/ Yiddishkeit?
I can find many motivations to NOT be frum, too. But do those actually motivate me to leave Yiddishkeit? NO!! because I KNOW that the life I'm leading is EMES and no other derech is... why would I want to live a life of falsehood even if it's "easier" in some regards.
Sorry, if I blabbed to much. Feel free to question wrote I wrote and I'll add more if necessary cuz there's definitely a lot more to say.
[There you go, Motek! Smile

]
and yes, it is okay to be frum w/o the answers... but do try to find the answers (I suggest R' Tatz books). but hey, I don't know most of the answers myself.

gryp

Wed, Jan 25 2006, 6:23 pm

Quote:

Now I know that all of the things I said could be dissected and proved wrong etc. But on the whole, does this seem true? Do others agree? How much of a motivation do you think these sort of things are for you?

amother, I definately agree with you about these things. but for me those things arent a motivation, theyre more like side benefits.
the only thing that I would call motivation for me to be better than I am, is to be an example for my kids so they will grow up better than I. example is the best way of teaching.
I dont really need motivation to be frum because I'm just happy knowing I am doing the right thing, but thats just me.

imale

Thu, Jan 26 2006, 3:47 am

Amother, all the reasons for being frum that you posted, are all true and all great reasons to stay frum etc....However being frum or not is not like a job application, where you weigh the pro's and con's and after much thought make a decision. Being frum is a spiritual condition that the most spiritual part of us, our Neshama, makes that decision for us, because it is drawn magnetically to anything G-dly. Of course once on that path one can have many doubts and questions, and can even go off the derech if he thought it out enough with his brain and decided to live a more secular lifestyle , but his Neshama will always yearn to "go back home".
So just listen to your Neshama he'll have all the answers for you Wink

daisy

Thu, Jan 26 2006, 9:47 am

imale wrote:

I disagree. I don't think one person can judge another's reasons or motivation for being frum. From what I remember learning (and I hate pulling things out of my head withough remembering sources, so someone correct me if I am wrong...) Judaism is a religion of practice, not merely belief. There are many great people over the years who had many unanswered questions of faith and they dealt with it separately. The points in Judaism come from DOING the mitzvos and of course we hope that mitoch shelo lishma, ba lishma. It's great if one's neshama feels that spiritual connection, but it doesn't always work for everyone and it's OK! (Am I less of a Jew because I didn't cry the first time I went to the kosel?) There are countless different madregos/levels of serving Hashem (e.g. ahava as opposed to yira).

Motek

Thu, Jan 26 2006, 12:50 pm

imale wrote:

Being frum is a spiritual condition that the most spiritual part of us, our Neshama, makes that decision for us, because it is drawn magnetically to anything G-dly. Of course once on that path one can have many doubts and questions, and can even go off the derech if he thought it out enough with his brain and decided to live a more secular lifestyle , but his Neshama will always yearn to "go back home".

daisy wrote:

It's great if one's neshama feels that spiritual connection, but it doesn't always work for everyone and it's OK!

I don't think you're really disagreeing. Imale is not saying you necessarily feel that spiritual connection, but it's there whether you feel it consciously or not!

the point about DOING is good

daisy wrote:

There are countless different madregos/levels of serving Hashem (e.g. ahava as opposed to yira)

ahava and yira aren't levels though there ARE countless levels WITHIN ahava and yira

we ALL need to have love and fear of Hashem and to a certain extent, love and fear of Hashem are innate for a Jew

Motek

Tue, Jan 31 2006, 12:01 pm

amother wrote:

But on the whole, does this seem true? Do others agree?

yes

Quote:

How much of a motivation do you think these sort of things are for you?

I don't think these are a motivation for me.

Quote:

And I guess my question is if this is enough. For now at least. Because it's really hard to find answers, but I WANT to be frum even if I don't have answers.

if it motivates you to be frum it's fine though it shouldn't stop you from learning more and doing mitzvos for even better reasons