Toronto/Hamilton | Imamother

ihyphenated

Fri, Jan 02 2009, 2:47 am

Hi everyone,
My husband is applying to McMaster University for grad school and if he gets in (G-d willing he should get in everywhere he applies...) we will most likely end up there.
I'm a little nervous about moving to Canada (I grew up in LA, can handle NYC winters, but am worried about Ontario's!) but mostly I'm worried about not having any friends! Can anyone tell me anything about the frum young couple situation in Toronto or in Hamilton? And the general Jewish situation? Where people typically live? Shuls, Mikvaos, etc?? Any info will help me feel a little bit less freaked out, every bit helps....

catonmylap

Fri, Jan 02 2009, 3:05 am

Toronto is full of young couples, and has everything imaginable Jewishly. There are multiple different neighborhoods.

I didn't get the impression that there were that many young frum couples in Hamilton, but I could be wrong. Hamilton has one mikvah that is really nice, and just one little supermarket/grocery store. There is one day school. We were on shlichut in Kitchener which is 45 minutes from Hamilton. The kids from Kitchener(who were 90% not frum) who went to day school went to Hamilton. You need to check out Hamilton to see if it's an option for you, but you should have no issues Jewishly or socially with Toronto.

The weather was a bit of a shock for me. It was very very cold....but you get used to it somehow.

It was difficult for me to get a work permit as an American. I had to get offered a job before they would give me a permit which put me in a difficult place. (Though once I got one for a job, it let me work anywhere, but they didn't say that would work initially or I would have gotten a "fake" letter straight away). The immigration/visa stuff was a much bigger pain than we had anticipated as Americans.

montrealmommy

Fri, Jan 02 2009, 7:32 am

Toronto has a very diverse community; so you can probably find a niche there, but the commute to and from Mcmasters will be about 45min-1hr (with out traffic - and Toronto is never without traffic, especially on the QEW - the main route to Hamilton/McMasters - there are others, but this is the main hwy).

As for Hamilton - it is a wonderful community. Fabulous Rav and great families. Dh lived there before were married and we almost moved there - many reasons why not, but none to do with the people there. If you'd like, pm me and I can give you the names of some of our friends there who can give you much more accurate info and answer your questions.

AS for the winter, Torontonian winter is similar to NY (ok, I am canadian, but having lived in To and NY, IMO they are somewhat similar - the overall snow fall is not that different, except in To it stays longer whereas in NY it melts faster. The overall temp in To is not that greatly different than NY - it's not like Ottawa, Montreal or Winnepeg which can all be excrutiatingly cold.

catonmylap

Fri, Jan 02 2009, 7:50 am

montrealmommy wrote:

AS for the winter, Torontonian winter is similar to NY (ok, I am canadian, but having lived in To and NY, IMO they are somewhat similar - the overall snow fall is not that different, except in To it stays longer whereas in NY it melts faster. The overall temp in To is not that greatly different than NY - it's not like Ottawa, Montreal or Winnepeg which can all be excrutiatingly cold.

I thought it was so much colder!!! Even though there weren't crazy amounts of snow, the snow would stick around and not melt....our street was covered with a layer of ice the entire winter. It was a warm day when it was above 0 celcius, and I needed boots to walk to shul for most of the winter. I'm originally from Maryland, but I never thought that NYC was too different from Maryland. (Could be I was also a little more sensitive after living in Israel for a few years....)

amother

Fri, Jan 02 2009, 9:47 am

I grew up in Toronto, and all I can say is its a great Jewish community, with many facets of Orthodoxy within. Everyone can find their place there. Its worth researching the different parts of the community before you move , to find out which neighbourhood best suits you and your family. There are many schools and shuls to choose from. I dont think hamilton is such a happening Orthodox community, and you might feel very isolated there. The kosher shopping is very limited, there is maybe one shul and the dayschool probably has very few frum kids.(I dont know if that would bother you, but it would bother me!) The trip to Hamilton from toronto is abt one hour with traffic, but its worth living in Toronto over Hamilton, for all the above reasons!

amother

Fri, Jan 02 2009, 10:06 am

Toronto is a wonderful community! I was raised in Toronto and just miss is so much now that I had to move away when I got married. It's full of young couples, tons of orthodoxy (in fact, one of the main complaints about Toronto is that everyons is either super frum...or secular, and there's little in between). There are even a few shuls that are almost exclusively young couples.

You'll find tons of kosher restaurants, a million jewish organizations/clubs and more kosher food than one can imagine! I'm not sure if the record still stands, but up until a couple years ago, Toronto had the largest kosher grocery store outside of Israel. It's called Sobey's and it's located in Thornhill, which is JUST north of Toronto (very very close to the city) and it's HUGE!

As for the winters...please don't get too worked up over it. My philosophy is this: Whether it's minus 20 degrees outside or minus 30 degrees, it's REALLY cold and it sucks! So Toronto might be colder than what you're used to...but how much time do you really spend outside in the winter in NY/NJ/Chicago, etc. anyway? Toronto is no different. Just get yourself a good, long winter coat and you'll be JUST fine!!

Best of luck!!

mimsy7420

Fri, Jan 02 2009, 1:10 pm

Toronto has a huge jewish community and hamilton has a small one. Depending on what program your husband is going to, you can decide if that hour commute is worth it. If he is one of the medical programs most people move to hamilton. I know 2 or 3 young couples who live in hamilton, and they love it. There is a kosher butcher and a shul. It's a very nice small connected community.

amother

Sun, Jan 04 2009, 10:23 am

Toronto has tons of young, professional couples and some shuls are almost exclusively so. The entertainment is not NY, a little more low key as is the whole lifestyle here. Hamilton is about an hour of highway driving but there are certainly others who do it. Most of my friends who grew up in Hamilton landed up moving to Toronto even before marriage. The winters are a little colder but the last few years, NY has even gotten more snow than us. This is not Montreal where it is really treacherous.
Toronto is a warm, welcoming community generally but be prepared- real estate prices are high and that includes rentals. But with the dollar this low, you should find it reasonable. Oh, you need a car to get around here- public transportation is not the best unless you are going downtown. Good luck!

realeez

Sun, Jan 04 2009, 1:31 pm

catonmylap wrote:

montrealmommy wrote:

I think you are right. BRRRRRRRR freezing as I type!

realeez

Sun, Jan 04 2009, 1:34 pm

mimsy7420 wrote:

If you think you might end up at UofT you should move to the Bathurst/Lawrence area- its on the subway line. You don't want to be driving downtown. Its also the area with the biggest concentration of orthodox jews, lots of schools, shuls and kosher food to choose from.

Yeah, and if you live there you could be without a car if necessary. (BTDT with 2 kids).

Hamilton has a bunch more young couples than they used to (like when I lived there). Other than a butcher, there isn't much in terms of restaurants or ready-to-eat stuff as opposed to the tons of takeout options.

DH applied to McMaster for med school and UofT and I am very happy he got into UofT. I'm much happier living in Toronto than I was in Hamilton for a few months that were long enough.

realeez

Mon, Jan 05 2009, 7:09 pm

ihyphenated wrote:

reeleez, I heard its really difficult to get into Mcmaster/UofT as a US citizen.... do you/your DH have any insight on this?

Yeah he said it is hard but isnt sure if it's because they only accept a certain number of US citizens or what.

Even for Canadians it is hard to get in! Most of his friends/relatives went to Israel for med school because they didn't get in. Mac is more likely to accept interesting cases - like the older mom of a bunch of kids that we know or the Rabbi in his 30s who decided to go for a change. My dh applied 2 years in a row to Mac. In the first year, his essay was ranked in the 97th percentile but he didn't do so well on the interview (it is a not typical type). The second year he applied, when he also applied to UofT, the same essay (which is allowed) was ranked in the 27th percentile! How weird is that?! B"H he got in here - our other option was Technion in Haifa. Back then, Sackler wasn't accepting Canadian students.

Good luck with everything!

amother

Wed, Feb 11 2009, 1:54 pm

I would say it depends what you are looking for. Toronto has several day schools, which is a blessing and a curse (in my opinion). Because there are so many schools, they all struggle financially.

Anyway, be prepared tuition for your kids this year was approximately $12,000 per child. Your oldest will soon be in high school which is in the $18,000 range. I know - it's crazy.

If you want a more yeshivish education for your kids, I'd recommend Eitz Chaim. It has been around for about 80 years or more and is a good school. There is a boys and girls' campus. Most people who send their kids there cover their hair (although not 100%). There is not much of a Zionist slant - I don't think they have an Israeli flag on their fields. Also, they have a bit of a different vacation schedule. Winter break is for a week in late January and they have school throughout December (a bad thing in my opinion, since most working parents have off work in December). The rebbes are mostly black hat types. Also, starting in grade 5 the boys go to school on Sunday.

In the more MO realm, there is Netivot HaTorah. It has co-ed classes until grade 6 at which point the boys and girls are separated. Some mothers cover their hair, some don't. Here the Judaic studies teachers are primarily Israelli shlichim. Ivrit is strongly emphasized as are all things related to Israel. The halachic observance of the parents and the emphasis of the school is much less than Eitz Chaim. They daven daily, but the emphasis on halacha le'maaseh is less than Eitz Chaim. Most families are strictly kosher and shomer Shabbos (but some have questionable lifestyles and you need to be aware of this - but agian, they are in the minority). The secular education here may be superior to Eitz Chaim's.

At the end of the day, many of the graduates go to the B'nei Akiva high school and end up in the same yeshivas in Israel. Even those that go to more religious schools, end up in Israel in yeshiva.

There are more observant and less observant schools, but those are probably your best choices.