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Forum
-> Yom Tov / Holidays
-> Purim
shalhevet
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 Mon, Jan 26 2009, 11:53 pm
| Mommish wrote: | | shalhevet wrote: |
No, because I understand it can be time consuming. especially if you are making 7 YT meals + chol hamoed + Shabboses + guests etc etc. That takes days of cooking and baking, so why leave it to the last minute? On the contrary, more cooking and baking in advance leaves those who do so with more time for teshuva and concentrating on the more spiritual aspects of the YT as well as making food l'koved Shabbos and YT. |
Not sure I really want to jump into the fray here, but I think you are missing that for many (most? all?) of us the cooking etc is not necessarily something to get out of the way so that we can then become malachim who are only spiritual, but rather a very important PART of our kavanna, how we get involved in the holiday. Yom Kippur is "Yom HakiPURIM," the day that is like Purim because the ahavas yisroel and simcha that come from the physical mitzvot of Purim (since we are celebrating being saved from physical annihilation) is something that even Yom Kippur can only aspire to. (There is even part of YK davening that says it is a day of ahavas yisroel.) |
I think you misunderstood me, and/or are missing the point.
Of course it is a mitzva to have oneg YT with delicious food, and to make a yummy Purim seuda. Of course it is part of our tafkid as women to make the physical preparations for Shabbos and YT - a clean house, clean and ironed clothes, special food. I get the impression from your post that you imagine me sitting on erev Purim reading a mussar sefer and then sending a bag of Bamba and a chocolate bar to one neighbour and serving my family challa and margarine for the seuda.
But all these physical things are only part of each YT. If someone puts all their efforts into dressing up their family like a medieval English family and sending mead and plum pudding for MM and serving 27 courses at their seuda, and they are left with no time/ energy/ space in their minds for thinking about the nes of Purim and thanking Hashem for saving us, then they have missed the point.
Instead of knocking me and FS here, you should appreciate that someone from another place can have a different perspective, and maybe, just maybe there is some truth in it. Because you (presumably) grew up and/or live in a place where it is the norm to invest time, effort and money in themed MM (for example) you see it as a necessary part of enjoying Purim. Whereas I see all the families around me sending simple MMs - the ones with more time bake themselves, and the ones who don't have the time just put some Bamba and wafers and some candies and perhaps a tin of pineapple or tuna on a plate and send it to their friends and neighbours AND EVERYONE HAS A WONDERFUL, SIMCHADIK PURIM.
That is the point - that people on this board keep repeating that it is l'koved this mitzva or that mitzva to spend lots and lots of money on gashmius. The people who buy their daughters $500 matching dresses for YT are no doubt convinced it is all l'sheim shamayim. Those who don't have money left to give tzedaka are most likely sure their 3 foot tall silver menorah is a hiddur mitzva. When is something a hiddur and when is it just gashmius wrapped up in another name? I don't know where the line lies. And certainly the line moves according to time and place. But there seems to be a general distortion of priorities. At least you should consider that those on the 'outside' may have a valid point.
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meirav
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 12:35 am
If I may be so bold, I'd like to summarize things here:
MM should be nice, not over the top expensive, and may or may not have an appropriate kosher theme.
We shouldn't stop giving MM, but should also prioritize and make sure we are giving the right amount of Tzedakah.
Everyone should be tolerant, and what one may consider jabbering about meaningless shtuss, may be cheerful networking for ideas for someone else.
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louche
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 7:11 am
| freidasima wrote: |
....maybe it's time to go back to old fashioned values, keeping the minimum of the mitzva and being able to give the money, not to speak of time and effort to Matonos LaEvyonim?????!!!!
.....
Our "theme" this year should be supporting other Yidden!!!!! How could they have "Ora Vesimcha" if they are worried about what they are going to eat or how they will pay their bills???!!! Our theme should be helping torah. For those of you who can, give extra money to a yeshiva for a poor kollel student or to help a Jewish soup kitchen.
...
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Right on Freidasima!!! If even a small part of all the $ wasted on trying to outdo each other with eye-popping, they'll-be-talking-about-this-in-Brooklyn-till-next Purim MMs were spent on Matonos Leevyonim instead, we'd ALL be better off.
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louche
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 7:29 am
| freidasima wrote: | Ladies, I am truly in shock.
Is this Imamother?
Is this supposed to be a forum for frum yiddishe women?
I was certainly not trying to be a party pooper but to bring some people down to reality.
What has happened to Yiddishkeit???!!! |
Freidasima, overdone SM is just the tip of the iceberg. Materialism is rampant all around us , and I don't understand where it's coming from. I am literally nauseated to see all the ads in frum publications for rich, sensual luxuries that wouldn't be out of place in the decadence that was Rome. Not that one should live in a hovel if one can afford better, but whence the appetite for jewels, furs, and lavish weddings that rival those of British royalty? The Chinese auction catalogs make me sick with their conspicuous-consumption merchandise for every member of the family including the little children. What little girl needs an entire collection of dolls that retails for $1000? Are we so crass that we will give tzedaka to an organization only if we think we may win a full-length mink or a $5000 silver menorah?
When did the motto of the Jewish world become "vechol hamagzim, harei zeh meshubach"? What happened to "hatznea leches"?
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Tova
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 9:55 am
Louche, while I don't disagree with your posts or the sentiments behind them, I still don't see the relevance of making these points in THIS thread. I don't live in Brooklyn, so I don't know the "eye-catching, talk-about-it-'til-next-Purim" SM that people give, but I doubt that it is the moms that are dressing their kids up as firemen and packing some red-colored or hot-flavored items into a plastic fireman's hat that fit into this category! The latter is what I see this thread is about. I skimmed back over and do not see one suggestion that is over-the-top and frankly even not cost effective.
Again, as I posted, these themed SM are not my style (although I enjoy hearing about the cute ideas!). Personally I like giving minim that can be enjoyed at the seudah (or have the potential to be; even if not served on Purim). This means baking challah or cakes and giving with wine/grape juice, some fruit, etc. There are people that we have specific hakaras hatov to, and I will make their SM more chashuv - maybe a bottle of sparkling grape juice in place of the smaller size regular grape juice for everyone else, or a whole pineapple in place of the banana in the others. And a nice basket instead of the smaller gift bags everyone else gets. The end result is (I hope) nice looking, but in no way screaming "LOOK AT ME!"
In terms of timing of when this is all getting done, I am slated to do my baking this week. I go back to work in 2 weeks after my maternity leave (and I'm a CPA, which means---TAX SEASON). Also, we keep yoshon and only give for SM items that we ourselves would eat (besides for the fact that a lot of our recipients keep yoshon). After one year when I literally could not find yoshon whole wheat flour or oatmeal after beginning February, I now plan and shop in advance.
In addition, every SM I give gets a personal note. Not just "To the X Family, Happy Purim, From the Y Family," but personal to the recipient. Not at all trying to toot my horn here (please believe me that), but I have gotten such nice feedback on this. One lonely single person told me that she waits all Purim to get my notes. Another busy mother of 8 told me that she is saving my notes to show her kids when they get older how things are done.  So by @ Tu B'shvat I have my lists of recipients drafted, and I write maybe 4 or 5 a week (we probrably give @ 20). I would never do this if it caused undue stress in my home, but I see it as almost an excersize in ruchniyus, as I conjure up what I admire about the recipient, what I can learn from them, what I am thankful to them for, etc. That is just my style. [We also mail off Purim cards - tzeddakah! - and personalize them.]
Lastly, to repeat what I mentioned previously, I think it is VERY important that women who enjoy making cute SM to get their creative juices flowing have this outlet. I see it as a very very positive and "kosher" thing. I DO see it as simchas hamitzva (I wouldn't call it "hiddur mitzva" as I believe that terms is only used specifically for things chazal coined as such) if it gets them and their kiddies excited for the upcoming chag. I do not see the fireman theme SM (to use an example I mentioned previously) as ego-boosting on the part of the sender AT ALL. Our lives as wives and mothers are busy, stressful, etc. If Mommy enjoys spending time on SM, what a great way to relieve some of the tension!
SOOO, to each their own, but please don't misconstrue the intentions of the other side or call someone's timing on the SM project as "weird" as I saw on this thread.
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Ronit
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 10:05 am
| Tova wrote: | Louche, while I don't disagree with your posts or the sentiments behind them, I still don't see the relevance of making these points in THIS thread. I don't live in Brooklyn, so I don't know the "eye-catching, talk-about-it-'til-next-Purim" SM that people give, but I doubt that it is the moms that are dressing their kids up as firemen and packing some red-colored or hot-flavored items into a plastic fireman's hat that fit into this category! The latter is what I see this thread is about. I skimmed back over and do not see one suggestion that is over-the-top and frankly even not cost effective.
Again, as I posted, these themed SM are not my style (although I enjoy hearing about the cute ideas!). Personally I like giving minim that can be enjoyed at the seudah (or have the potential to be; even if not served on Purim). This means baking challah or cakes and giving with wine/grape juice, some fruit, etc. There are people that we have specific hakaras hatov to, and I will make their SM more chashuv - maybe a bottle of sparkling grape juice in place of the smaller size regular grape juice for everyone else, or a whole pineapple in place of the banana in the others. And a nice basket instead of the smaller gift bags everyone else gets. The end result is (I hope) nice looking, but in no way screaming "LOOK AT ME!"
In terms of timing of when this is all getting done, I am slated to do my baking this week. I go back to work in 2 weeks after my maternity leave (and I'm a CPA, which means---TAX SEASON). Also, we keep yoshon and only give for SM items that we ourselves would eat (besides for the fact that a lot of our recipients keep yoshon). After one year when I literally could not find yoshon whole wheat flour or oatmeal after beginning February, I now plan and shop in advance.
In addition, every SM I give gets a personal note. Not just "To the X Family, Happy Purim, From the Y Family," but personal to the recipient. Not at all trying to toot my horn here (please believe me that), but I have gotten such nice feedback on this. One lonely single person told me that she waits all Purim to get my notes. Another busy mother of 8 told me that she is saving my notes to show her kids when they get older how things are done. So by @ Tu B'shvat I have my lists of recipients drafted, and I write maybe 4 or 5 a week (we probrably give @ 20). I would never do this if it caused undue stress in my home, but I see it as almost an excersize in ruchniyus, as I conjure up what I admire about the recipient, what I can learn from them, what I am thankful to them for, etc. That is just my style. [We also mail off Purim cards - tzeddakah! - and personalize them.]
Lastly, to repeat what I mentioned previously, I think it is VERY important that women who enjoy making cute SM to get their creative juices flowing have this outlet. I see it as a very very positive and "kosher" thing. I DO see it as simchas hamitzva (I wouldn't call it "hiddur mitzva" as I believe that terms is only used specifically for things chazal coined as such) if it gets them and their kiddies excited for the upcoming chag. I do not see the fireman theme SM (to use an example I mentioned previously) as ego-boosting on the part of the sender AT ALL. Our lives as wives and mothers are busy, stressful, etc. If Mommy enjoys spending time on SM, what a great way to relieve some of the tension!
SOOO, to each their own, but please don't misconstrue the intentions of the other side or call someone's timing on the SM project as "weird" as I saw on this thread. |
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BlumaG
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 10:11 am
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I now remember my wonderful idea for queen esther MM - a mini queen cake - you know the kind they make for Kallah's with the dolls body coming out of the cake - I can decorate with candy on the cake skirt and I've got 2 brochos - but I have a list of 15 ppl and forsting 15 mini cakes sounds like too much work ... someone else gave hte idea of using mini bundt pans to make cakes that look like a crown and use frosting to glue on candy for gems - sounds a WHOLE lot easier...
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 10:15 am
Exactly Tova....there are ostentatious things to speak up about, but I do not see this manifested in MM, at least where I am now and have been previously.
It's so nice you write individual notes. I think I'll try that this year 
(And the yoshon thing is so hard. I also keep yoshon and all of a sudden flour disappears Purim time, whether I need it for MM is besides the issue; I need it for myself!)
Regarding Shalom Bayis, I think it's important for people to realize that trying to take care of MM and costumes and seuda, etc all the last week before Purim can cause undo stress which can easily be taken care of beforehand.
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BlumaG
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 10:19 am
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can you MM bashing ppl take this to a diff. thread - ur ruining it for those mindless ppl like me who enjoy discussing purim right when the menorah is put away
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maxxxedout2001
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 10:42 am
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need idea of what to with baseball theme mm?
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Tova
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 10:42 am
| BlumaG wrote: | | I now remember my wonderful idea for queen esther MM - a mini queen cake - you know the kind they make for Kallah's with the dolls body coming out of the cake - I can decorate with candy on the cake skirt and I've got 2 brochos - but I have a list of 15 ppl and forsting 15 mini cakes sounds like too much work ... someone else gave hte idea of using mini bundt pans to make cakes that look like a crown and use frosting to glue on candy for gems - sounds a WHOLE lot easier... |
BlumaG, cute idea!
My husband just came home from yeshiva bein hasedorim and we've got to run to bring a kid to the doctor, but I read him your post and he confirmed my suspicions...the 2 minim for MM follows hilchos brachos in terms of ikkar v'tafel. In other words, as the candy on the cake is tafel to the cake in hilchos brachos (and a mezonos covers both; no need for shehakol), it is not considered a 2nd min for MM purposes. We will have to help you think of a 2nd thing to give...I hope this is clear; if not let me know as I am on the run...Hope it was OK to mention; this may also apply to other posts.
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shalhevet
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 10:47 am
| BlumaG wrote: | | I now remember my wonderful idea for queen esther MM - a mini queen cake - you know the kind they make for Kallah's with the dolls body coming out of the cake - I can decorate with candy on the cake skirt and I've got 2 brochos - but I have a list of 15 ppl and forsting 15 mini cakes sounds like too much work ... someone else gave hte idea of using mini bundt pans to make cakes that look like a crown and use frosting to glue on candy for gems - sounds a WHOLE lot easier... |
A cake decorated with candy is one brocho and one min and doesn't fulfil MM at all. (Who said it had to be two brochos anyway? But it certainly has to be 2 minim).
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BlumaG
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 10:49 am
that's fine but no I didnt understnad the whole brochos thing I can put a little organza bag in the middle with the right second food - I am intrested in the whole second bracha thing since DH says you don't need two - he doesn't mind whatever I do as long as it's presentable and not too expensive
baseball theme? hmmm... I remember someone one yr gave styrofoam take-out boxes with a hot-dog in a bun, potato chips and something else with a cute take on the 'take me out to the ball game' song
the only prob was many ppl threw out the hot dog cuz it had been sitting for a while but you can find some sort of something to make a fake hot dog
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octopus
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 10:50 am
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hmmmm... and my dh didn't want me baking for other ppl because he didn't want me to "show off". I always keep it simple. Everybody has diff madregahs of "showing off" I suppose.
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BlumaG
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 10:51 am
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why is candy and cake the same minim?
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octopus
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 10:51 am
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but I will also add that some ppl have more time than others to work on "projects." And some ppl are very creative. Mishloach manos can be a creative outlet for somebody. And I don't think that is wrong at all.
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fantabulous
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 10:57 am
maxed out - this is for you.
You can also do peanuts and cracker jacks
| OldYoung wrote: |
Anyway, a friend of mine did a cute one and was fairly inexpensive. They did a baseball theme, borrowed matching jerseys, gave out hotdogs in buns, small ketchup and mustard packets, coke or beer, popcorn and crackerjacks. They used styrofoam containers and put pictures of the team emblem on the top. I think it was a Purim Meshulash and they wrote something about "a triple". |
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Ronit
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 10:59 am
| octopus wrote: | | hmmmm... and my dh didn't want me baking for other ppl because he didn't want me to "show off". I always keep it simple. Everybody has diff madregahs of "showing off" I suppose. |
You must bake really delicous & pretty things! So when can we come taste if we aren't getting it on purim? 
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octopus
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 11:02 am
| hadassa wrote: | | octopus wrote: | | hmmmm... and my dh didn't want me baking for other ppl because he didn't want me to "show off". I always keep it simple. Everybody has diff madregahs of "showing off" I suppose. |
You must bake really delicous & pretty things! So when can we come taste if we aren't getting it on purim? |
nahhhh, nothing fancy like you're thinking. But always delicious. Although I really want to try the brownie filled hamantachen that cookielady posted in the past. If someone could bump that thread up I would be very grateful.
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fantabulous
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Tue, Jan 27 2009, 11:06 am
| octopus wrote: | | hadassa wrote: | | octopus wrote: | | hmmmm... and my dh didn't want me baking for other ppl because he didn't want me to "show off". I always keep it simple. Everybody has diff madregahs of "showing off" I suppose. |
You must bake really delicous & pretty things! So when can we come taste if we aren't getting it on purim? |
nahhhh, nothing fancy like you're thinking. But always delicious. Although I really want to try the brownie filled hamantachen that cookielady posted in the past. If someone could bump that thread up I would be very grateful. |
done
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