All Jews in Golah DIE during "the last war"?

TheBeinoni

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 1:38 am

I was just asked if I had heard of something written in the Zohar about all the Jews in the Golah being killed during "the last war" before Geula. I never heard of something like this, but apparently people have heard this in my town. I am hearing it second hand, third hand, maybe fourth hand, so I'm sure what I am saying is not accurate but is there any basis for a similar idea?

RichWithNachas

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 1:47 am

actually, the opposite that there is no need to die. There is a pasuk that says Vnafshi Keafar Lakol Tehiye and my soul will be like dust to everyone. This refers to the Bitul -humbleness-Nullification that a person has and therefore it is instead of death.and thereis no reason for death. B"H we see all the miracles to show us that.

TheBeinoni

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 2:14 am

so are you saying that we must feel this "bitul" or anivut (humbleness) in order to not die? or that we are inherently humble like in the pasuk? I don't 100% follow the connection of what you said to what I asked.

RichWithNachas

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 3:02 am

The Rebbe brings this explanation. That we can and do inherently have this bitul or from others that are yotze us and therefore this generation does not need to die but will go straight into Geula.

shalhevet

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 3:07 am

I learned that not all Jews will merit yemos hamashiach. Just as in Egypt, only 1/5 or 1/50 or 1/500 had the zechus to leave.

Those in chul will need much bigger zechuyos than those in EY - 'uv'har ziyon yihye pleita' - In Zion there will be a remnant. Those in EY will need minimal zechuyos, and those in chul will need great, great zechuyos. There were many gedolei Yisroel who were afraid to leave EY (for halachically valid reasons) in case the mashiach came while they were gone and they wouldn't have enough zechuyos to return from chul.

RichWithNachas

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 3:17 am

Interesting; I guess different Miforshim.

The Rebbe says that while in egypt only 1/5 or 1/50 (depending on the miforash) went out and they went out Bchipazon, in a hurry, In yimos Hamoshiach everyone will be zoche and that is why it says "Lo bichipazon TeTZAIUN- we will not go in a hurry- as we see already it its taking this long. An another Pasuk which says "Atem teluktu Echad EChad, we will be gathered one by one -to help each person come back to his source-taht of repentace

Atali

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 10:18 am

shalhevet wrote:

Then how do you explain that "Kol Yisrael yesh lahem cheilek l'olam haba"?

earthmama

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 11:47 am

I thought all people regardless of location will die before tchiyas hameisim.but maybe that's not adjacent to the last war?maybe later?I find this topic fascinating but there seem to be different views .

Ruchel

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 11:56 am

Atali wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

Then how do you explain that "Kol Yisrael yesh lahem cheilek l'olam haba"?

ditto.

I know many rabbis who don't push or even hold back people (and themselves) making alia, so it's not so clear at all b'h.

TheBeinoni

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 5:28 pm

Olam Haba is NOT geulah. Olam Haba is after you die. Geulah is when we have the beit hamikdash... or I made that up... ??? Can someone else jump in to clarify?

I have learned from both Lubavitchers and non-Lubavitchers that in this coming geulah - the third and final one - everyone will merit.

This is very interesting...

octopus

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 5:47 pm

there is a difference between y'mos hamashiach, acharis hayamim, and olam haba. There is a huge machlokes between the ramchal and the rambam as to what each one of these are.

I have never heard that all Jews outside of e'y will die. Plus there is always the opportunity of teshuvah. Any bad nevuah (let's say in yirmiyahu) has the possibility of not coming true as long as there is teshuva. A good nevuah, on the other hand, cannot be changed.

Atali

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 5:58 pm

TheBeinoni wrote:

I learned it differently. I learned that Gan Eden is after you die and Olam Haba is Yemos HaMoshiach.

shalhevet

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 6:00 pm

TheBeinoni wrote:

Olam Haba is NOT geulah. Olam Haba is after you die. Geulah is when we have the beit hamikdash... or I made that up... ??? Can someone else jump in to clarify?

That is what I learned too.

octopus

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 6:00 pm

Atali wrote:

TheBeinoni wrote:

I learned it differently. I learned that Gan Eden is after you die and Olam Haba is Yemos HaMoshiach.

there are many different opinions on this. I had a class on this in twelfth grade. Even though I said there is a machlokes between the rambam and ramcha, there are still other opinions that view it differently then they do.

RichWithNachas

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 6:06 pm

The Rebbe says in our generation there is no need for death. We will have eternal life and go straight to the Geulah

mimivan

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 6:07 pm

TheBeinoni wrote:

well, they are different now...but I learned that when the geulah is here, since all the neshamas will be resurrected...olam habaa will exist here...so there won't be the kind of division between the two that there are now. Anyone who has a place in olam haba (which is every Jews) will by definition be a part of the geulah because all the dead will be brought back to life.

TheBeinoni

Mon, Jan 12 2009, 6:10 pm

mimivan wrote:

great comprehensive explanation! thanks....now I need to go report these findings back to the ppl who had heard everyone in golah dies cv's