Violence vs. Inappropriate Boy/Girl Stuff in books

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red sea

Wed, Feb 08 2006, 7:39 pm

In high schools they talk to girls all the time about not reading romance novels, why then do they keep violent murderous plotting "classics" on the curriculum?

As a school they should be striving to teach the path of the torah, to perfection, even if no individual will reach that goal. Is it not hypocritical of them to favor one of the 3 yaiharaig v'al ya'avors over the next? Sure we can't live like a romance novel as a single girl, but when we are married we can, but it is never okay to live like most of shakespeare's works.

SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE RIGHT WAY?

hardwrknmom

Wed, Feb 08 2006, 7:54 pm

red sea I agree with you 100%.. where do they draw the line? what's appropriate and what isn't ..

goldrose

Wed, Feb 08 2006, 8:23 pm

ye. macdeath is worthless.

ektsm

Wed, Feb 08 2006, 8:25 pm

because they try to teach you classical english which means a "tragic hero," and all these things are played out in more violent books like "Macbeth," "Huck Finn," and the rest.

Crayon210

Wed, Feb 08 2006, 8:29 pm

I think this was the motivation behind creating a "kosher" literature textbook (Artscroll was involved, I believe?)

hardwrknmom

Wed, Feb 08 2006, 8:54 pm

goldrose wrote:

ye. macdeath is worthless.

LOL I enjoyed Mrs. Laine's enthusiasm!

goldhop

Wed, Feb 08 2006, 9:15 pm

Reading about immorality is a problem when it leads to having the wrong machshavos, and involves an actual prohibition. While reading/watching violence may definitely have a detrimental impact on a person, I don't know if it sticks with a person as much as reading about romance may.

Regarding violence, or horror, I remember that after I read "The Picture of Dorian Gray" by Oscar Wilde, the horror that it evoked in me stayed with me for weeks. I can say that it was honestly the scariest book I've ever read, although really brilliant, and I've read plenty that could be considered "scarier." I think when horror is suggested, rather than painted in blood and gore, it is much more frightening at its core, since the reader "fills in the details" until it becomes truly nightmarish.

(The book explores the issue of how when a person commits evil, it becomes so much a part of him, that it is reflected in his physical appearance)

gryp

Wed, Feb 08 2006, 10:38 pm

I was so glad to say goodbye forever to shakespeare, dickens, and the others when I graduated.

just to add to some absolutely Rolling Eyes

stupid things teachers did (oops, off track): in 6th grade, my teacher showed us a movie that had to do with China which we were learning about. the first thing that happens on the movie is a man who slits his wrists by the bathtub to commit suicide.
I only realized how traumatized I was when I was giving my little sister a bath that night, and as soon as I turned on the water, I burst into tears and ran out, (remembering the scene in the movie that happened by the bathtub.) I couldnt bear to be in the bathroom after that, it took a lot of distraction and self-control shock

oh well.

goldrose

Wed, Feb 08 2006, 10:41 pm

rg, wow, its interesting that you MADE the connection emotionally, and knew what made you cry. --I still have a hard time with those kind of connections. that's great, especially for that age. and yes, it WAS dumb of the teacher.

gryp

Wed, Feb 08 2006, 10:43 pm

goldrose- it wasnt hard, because as soon as I turned on the water to run the bath, the picture of the man by the bathtub bleeding all over the place flashed thru my mind.

carrot

Thu, Feb 09 2006, 8:03 am

goldhop wrote:

The Picture of Dorian Gray is a horror book for a different reason. It is NOT warning you to be good. It is the opposite, it is a MOCKERY of normal morality. Maybe the teachers don't realize that when they teach it. It is a book advocating pure evil and nobody even knows it! Oscar Wilde has definitely won this round. shock

shoy18

Thu, Feb 09 2006, 8:26 am

I agree totally, was anyone subjected to the Scarlet Letter, why on earth is that permitted to read????? For those of you who werent privy to reading that lovely novel. It was about a woman who had a child out of wedlock and had to wear a scarlet letter........

chen

Thu, Feb 09 2006, 9:52 am

au contraire, it was criticizing the Puritan society that ostracized this woman and her innocent child, while both her abusive husband who made the sin possible and the clergyman who led her into sin, got off scot free. The book made it obvious that the woman repented of her sin and devoted her life to good works while in her own way defying and transcending the hypocritical society in which she lived. It neither glorifies nor condones the sin.

Milk Munch

Thu, Feb 09 2006, 10:19 am

I'm with you all, I can't believe the trash they had us reading in high school. I was looking back at all the reports I had written one day, and I couldn't believe the stuff they had us writing about. McBeth ,Hamlet, The Pearl, A Separate Peace, that one about the kids stuck on the island... Whats the point??
Some of the books I did enjoy reading, but I don't think I gained anything useful from them.

goldhop

Thu, Feb 09 2006, 12:26 pm

Somehow I didn't come away with that message from "The Picture of Dorian Gray." Although the introduction by the literary "experts" tried to make the case that Oscar Wilde wasn't moralizing, and maybe such a "moral" person as Oscar Wilde wouldn't want to do that, I think the book ends with a very clear moral, the devastating effect that a life without a conscience has on a person. Then again, I read it a number of years ago.

raizy

Sun, Feb 12 2006, 1:30 am

oh and what about jane eyres that is pure trash from start to finish. and we were priveleged to see the movie on it too... in middle of the movie. the princeapal stopped it . it was too trashy...

Motek

Sun, Feb 12 2006, 11:51 am

chen wrote:

au contraire

why au contraire?
the book IS about

Quote:

a woman who had a child out of wedlock and had to wear a scarlet letter........

true, he was criticizing Puritan society etc. but should frum high school girls read about adultery and hypocritical Puritan society? why?

goldhop:

Quote:

(The book explores the issue of how when a person commits evil, it becomes so much a part of him, that it is reflected in his physical appearance)

the Arizal could look at your face and see the sins you committed shock

RG - was that teacher reprimanded? what a horrible thing! Mad

gryp

Sun, Feb 12 2006, 11:58 am

Quote:

RG - was that teacher reprimanded? what a horrible thing

well, my parents were fuming and let everyone know that. unfortunately, although this incident ws by far the worst, I have an entire collection of incidents with this teacher.

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