How much do you need to make a month to make it/survive?

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Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions

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raspberry tea

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 11:49 am

Can I have some opinions on how much we really need to bring in a month to make it in Israel?

To live either in the North or Central as an option. Large family, who knows how to live simply. I'm sure there are so many variables, if I could just get a generalization that would be helpful. Not sure about a car or not.

I hope I can get some opinions. Thanks ladies.

mandksima

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 12:24 pm

I think the consensus from a previous discussion came to 8-10,000 shekels but it does depend on what schooling you'll be using as the tuition varies. Rentals can also vary from 2000 shekels or less to 5000 and up. People live on much less than the 10,000 ideal but they usually have to forgo things they may want and not be able to save for the future or for emergencies. Food bills can be low if you want them to be.

raspberry tea

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 12:28 pm

Thanks for the reply mandksima. Is there a thread somewhere on this subject?

mandksima

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 3:32 pm

In the Life of Israel forum it has been discussed. Ask a mod for permission to access to the thread "Monthly Income" if you are serious about living here.

justmom

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 3:36 pm

I don't know where you guys are living, but our neighbors just cut down to 20,000 shekel a month and are quite proud of themselves. We managed to get down to 15,000 shekel this month, but that was quite the unusual acomplishment. Do those of you living on 8-10,000 shekel a month have cars, houses, chugim, insurance-- what am I missing?

raspberry tea

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 3:39 pm

8,000 a month and living like an Israeli??

No car, renting for now, we are looking at the North.

StrongIma

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 3:41 pm

it depends a lot on the size of the family inc. yeshiva tuition and such. I was embarrassed before to say that we just make it on 12,000/month - and that's without owning a car. plus we own our home.

raspberry tea

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 3:44 pm

Justmom, what areas are you talking about?

I looked into some places like RBS and other American hot spots, what you have make to live in a place like that is not necessarily normal. From what I understand the regular Israeli couldn't afford it. Unless of course you are making an American Salary.

raspberry tea

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 3:46 pm

These are all things I'm trying to figure out.

shalhevet

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 3:47 pm

The north can mean a lot of things - Caearea (super expensive, but I doubt you meant there), Haifa (reasonable) Tzfat (cheap, outside the old city) Migdal Haemek (super cheap) etc.

Places with cheap rentals usually have lower cost of living for other things.

justomom, I think the median salary here is under 6000 shekels a month. Not many people are living on 20000 whether or not they need it.

And OP - what hashkafa are you? I think, as a big generalization, it's much cheaper to live as a chareidi than DL.

raspberry tea

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 3:56 pm

Were looking into the cheaper places to live in the North. Like the places you mentioned. I'm just trying to figure out what we are actually going to need to make it.

And then we need to get an idea of what my DH will actually himself take in as a salary. There are so many questions, that I don't really have answers to, that it's a little scary. I'm just trying to do the best to figure what I can now.

We are chareidi, my husband has advanced degrees. I know that doesn't really say much....there are so many variables.

ShakleeMom

Wed, Jan 28 2009, 8:11 pm

This is an old rule: If you don't earn your rent in a week, you will struggle.

Akeres Habayis

Thu, Jan 29 2009, 2:30 am

shalhevet wrote:

we are chareidi (and live in a chareidi community)and bring in anywhere btw 6-8000nis,no car and we rent.dh is in kollel.I dont feel the "pinch".I'm more careful w/money than I was in the states.I cut cost on a lot of things.We could bring in more money by me taking a part time job(AND I'm not interested in it right now),but since we are making it and dont "feel poor"then we are ok.

shalhevet is right about it depends what hashkafah u are,I have lived in DL communities and found even though I had a cheap apt,everything else was just way outside of my budget.I felt like I was trying to "live like the jones"to make it.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jan 29 2009, 2:54 am

shalhevet wrote:

just asking, not bashing or yelling, why do you believe this is? I never heard this before. it really just depends on how you live, no matter what walk of life you are.

we have between 7 - 9 thousand shekels a month. we have a car, we rent for now and we are doing ok. there are times when it gets a bit tight, but we always manage and almost never feel the pinch.

Akeres Habayis

Thu, Jan 29 2009, 3:15 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

I think shalhevet has a point.I did live in a DL community,and the prices to live there are higher.
for example now I'm in Tel Tzion I pay 450 for a gan in K.Y. there gan runs anywhere from 600-800nis a month!!!
in the grocery store,the prices are more.when I lived in Efrat,I paid more for groceries than I did,if I traveled to Beitar(which is chareidi).
in DL communities kids are in all different types of chugim that charge a pretty sum to attend in Tel Tzion a chug runs about 100-200nis a month if that.
so u do pay more.clothes,most DL communities w/chederim dont require uniforms in Chareidi communities the kids wear uniforms,and u only have to wear your clothes for shabbos.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jan 29 2009, 3:27 am

Akeres Habayis wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

we also shop in beitar (we are in the gush) but here is an interesting question. we went to one of the stores in beitar and when we came out and looked over our cheshbone we saw that the bill was MUCH MUCH MUCH higher than usual when we go elsewhere and we looked and saw that the basari stuff was much pricier there than lets say in another store. how is that
also, just a quesiton (sorry for hijacking the thread for a minute) about uniforms. so what you said about uniforms, but if a child does not have a uniform to begin with, then there is a lesser expense for slothing because you cant have just one uniform, a I corect? (obviosly I am asking, I have no idea)

Marion

Thu, Jan 29 2009, 3:58 am

I think it depends. We're at about 9K right now, but really it's more because I drive a company vehicle. We're also only a family of four, two of whom are still under 3. We could do well on this salary & benefits plan for another 2 or 3 kids, I think.

Imaonwheels

Thu, Jan 29 2009, 4:21 am

In the 27 years I have been here the shekel has changed a lot so somethings are relevant to talk shekels and some dollars. Like when I was in maon olim the bus from Kfar Chabad to TA cost 1500 shekel, but that was $1.50. It does cost more to be DL and I can prove it. But it can also be done cheaper. In Elad where we are moving the DL apartments can be several hundred thousand shekels cheaper, stam. Mishav is one of the problems as they are a major contractor in that sector and their dirot are over priced.

I have lived on $1,000/mo and I until recently had a business where we got to 20,000. I see kids that makse 5-6K and live better in some ways. What is important to you really makes a difference as well as proper saving policy. It tough in one post. I can often sit with someone in an hour and teach them how to make these decisions on their own. There are a few conventional bits of wisdom that don't work but are still taught in banks, courses and aliya organizations.

One of the most neglected issues is that you have to know what type of community you want and that is the most important factor. Where you can afford and will be happy will change if you are DL, yeshivish/Litvish, chasidish or Chabad. This is much more significant in Israel than in the states because schools are not general, you will have to make a choice.

There are cheap options everywhere but the mercaz, which is overcrowded and overpriced. Y-m is also expensive as is the Rechovot-Rishon area.I strongly advise people to choose schools first and build around that. You will save yourself a lot of grief (and fights with teenaged kids).

Why do you say mercaz or north? Weather? Job? Also significant.

The average income is now over 8 but remember that those who make luxurious salaries are dragging up the curve. Most Israelis can be happy on 10k. I have never lived on more than that because when we were making 20k dh was investing a lot of it back into the store. Most of my life (7 years with ex, 5 alone and 5 until dh founded his business) I have lived on much less. Still I own a home, Raised 7 kids and put them through frum schools, made 6 bar mitzvas, 3 weddings and I give some help to my gc. I own my house and am looking at purchasing in a much more expensive area. I have a little savings because in the last year I made a bar mitzva, had 2 sets of twins born to my kids, went away for 4 days over YT w/dh helped one DS with his college tuition and sent one to 770. I used to have much more. I also have a few thousand on the CC and a loan.
That is all of my debt. I don't have a car but mostly because it was dh's choice. In my lifestyle a car davka would have saved us money.

You people who need 15-20K, do you live in a very expensive area?

You can live in Rechavia, send your kids to Chorev and go out in your latest model car.
You can also live in a caravan on a giva, go to the local mamad or cheder and tramp everywhere.

Every option in between is available. I am more than willing to help if I can know by post or pm where you are coming from - hashkafa, kids ages and occupation.

freidasima

Thu, Jan 29 2009, 4:41 am

Imaonwheels what happend with Elad? The last thing I remember is that you were looking up north?

OP people here are giving you good advice. There is Yerushalayim - Rechavia and there is Yerushalayim - Kiriyat Yovel. There is up north Haifa Kiriyal Shmuel and there is up north Migdal Haemek. All depends on what you are looking for.

Schools - depends on your kids age. You start with lots of little kids at home and then if they are boys you might find in a short time that the house is empty and they are already in yeshiva and out. If they are girls they are there for longer usually. So only if they are babies and you are planning more should you plan around schools, otherwise you can often send away if there isn't the right hashkofo school in your immediate area.

As for how much money you needs, depends on your needs. You live cheap but will that include a cellphone for each kid as they get older? Money, even on the best plans. Do you own now? Do you plan to buy here? There are loans but they have to be paid back. I'm with Imaonwheels, renting is throwing your money away if you can make a down payment on an apartment. I know people who couldn't afford apartments in the area they wanted to live and bought a three room apartment in Beersheva, rent to students and have no trouble finding tenents and use that money to pay for their rent or at least part of it in yerushalayim where they can't dream of buying. But they own a piece of property and aren't totally throwing their money away with nothing to show for it in a few years.

Food - you can eat cheap if you want to or if you have to, depends on what you are used to. No going out to eat, no prepared foods, no nosherai only homemades. Not that difficult.

One thing that people dont mention though although Imaonwheels did is that there is a future generation. Those of us who are older and have married kids and grandchildren know that you have to put money aside from the beginning for that future generation. Otherwise you are messing with your kids future in this counrty. So you have to budget for that as well, even if it means living really cheap. Put aside money every month for every kid, even a small sum like 100 shekel a month if you can't afford more. Eventually it adds up.

But come. IT's worth it!

chanchy123

Thu, Jan 29 2009, 4:58 am

Akeres Habayis wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

It really depends on the community you live in, my rent including taxes is under 500 NIS a month, nowhere near the 2000 figure. I think as a rule DL have less society obligations that cause them to spend money, so if they want to live the simple life it is easier for them. We don't have to buy or rent fancy outfits for simchas. Our husbands just wear nice pants and a nice shirt for shabbat (no suite expenses). We don't give huge monitary gifts on chagim to our children's teachers, we don't need to pay shadchanim huge sums, we don't need to give a down payment on a house for our children to get marreid, we don't need to own sheitals, we don't need to sepnd three times as much on chicken or meat. Many times we don't need to send children to private or semi-private schools, we don't need to send our children to any chugim at all (I don't know very many poor DL who send to chugim but I do knom many poor charedim who do), we don't need to buy expensive jewlery (almost none of my freinds even own good jewlery besides a diamond or two for engagment rings). The list is endless.

So basically, it all depends on the choices you make in life, prioritzing, compromizing, etc. You save on some stuff so you have extra for others.

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