The worse hostess ever

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Akeres Habayis

Mon, Feb 09 2009, 9:05 am

sarahO I dont think it would bother me.my first thought would be,they want to stay out of our hair.
or they are exhausted from a long week,I call these guests low maintenance LOL

my sem girls that come do that,but I find out later they davened in their room,or are learning,talking etc.
they do the dishes clean up before they go,which is very nice.
bachurim I would have a problem with though.

Seraph

Mon, Feb 09 2009, 9:17 am

As a guest, I often would sleep in till lunch, and then sleep again after lunch. Especially if you're single and go by yourself someplace to someone you don't know, it can be very awkward to spend that much time trying to make conversation with some stranger. I retreated to my room when not eating for that reason...

Blair

Mon, Feb 09 2009, 9:29 am

Seraph this may sound really stupid but why would you want to go to someones home that you do not know. Won't you have been better to have stayed at home and gone out for the meals. Or better yet to some place that you would have enjoyed the Shabbos better.

Akeres Habayis

Mon, Feb 09 2009, 9:49 am

blair I think she was talking about when she was in sem?the girls have to go somewhere for shabbos.they have to make their own arrangements.and since most of the sem's are american they dont really have a lot of family to go to for shabbos.but they miss home,and want to stay in new communities to see as much of israel as they can,and see how american families live here.bottomline they have to go somewhere,the school doesn't provide every shabbos meal.

micki

Mon, Feb 09 2009, 10:31 am

I see I am in the minority here, you sound like a caring hostess but there are certain things I just would do differently. If you know that your child needs a particualr fruit then make sure you have plenty to go around. Don't have only one orange in the house while you have a guest. Get a few more. I never expect my guests to bring food with them when they come! I usually ask if there is anything I can get for them or their kids that they specifically like. And I certainly would not want them eating in their (my kids) bedroom - (PESACH) I'd rather serve them everything they need in the kitchen.
I remember a guest asked me if I have a baby lotion- and I said sure no problem! Its very easy to forget all the little things that you have at home, like toothbrushes, toothpaste- its very easy to forget to bring that. Instead of thinking how terrible she is, be dan lekaf Zechus and be HAPPY to give your guest what she needs.
why should a guest sit in their bed room? Its perfectly normal to want to sit in the living room. Do you have a comfortable couch in the bedroom or did you want her to sit on the bed? When you open your home to a guest you did just that- opened your home. You cannot decide where they should be- sitting in a living room is the normal thing to do.
If you are only able to host the "perfect" guests then you are not doing the mitzva properly. Of course I sympathize tremendously if you have a hard guest, but if you agreed to have a guest then you agreed to have their differences too.

cookielady

Mon, Feb 09 2009, 10:36 am

micki wrote:

While I agree that you had a hard time and she was a hard guest, The mitzva of hachnosas orchim is not meant to be easy and pleasurable. that is why it is a mitzva. As a hostess you should anticipate your guests needs and provide for them more than you would for your family. Keeping the fruit for your child, was not correct, you should have offered it to your guest and then some.
Unfortunatly providing for their needs may inconvience you- ie the light on, but that only increases your schar in doing hachnosas orchim. try not to see it as what a horrible guest she was, but rather what a great opportunity for you to go above and beyond what you normally do.

I have to disagree. Many years ago, when my oldest son was a 1 year old, the place we lived in had no near source for milchigs. I had some cottage cheese and milk that I was saving for my son. We had a very rude guest that made a big deal, that I should give it to her not save it for my baby. I told her, sorry but she could eat other food and he needed it.

I do not think that Akeres should have given the fruit to her guest, who is an adult and can deal with it, vs. a baby who needs it more.

This same guest went into our kitchen M"S and packed up all the leftover food we had from Shabbos, which was a lot. She said she was going out and needed the food. She didn't ask, just told me. I didn't say anything, but again it was meat and chicken that was very hard to come by.

When the same guest called about a year later to come back, I just said sorry we can't have you.

greenfire

Mon, Feb 09 2009, 10:48 am

I don't get the reading in the living room - doesn't sound like a big deal to me having a guest relax in the living room ...

also being a guest and hiding in your room sounds like you're using the hostess and not being friendly ...

Seraph

Mon, Feb 09 2009, 11:27 am

Blair wrote:

As a sem girl on my own in a city with no family, either I could have stayed home in my empty apartment by myself for shabbos, or I could have gone away. I generally chose to go away because no matter how akward some shabbosim could be, sometimes I really enjoyed myself, and staying at home would have been really lonely.

Akeres Habayis

Tue, Feb 10 2009, 9:05 am

micki I hear u,I dont know where u live,BUT in israel, friut and veggies in the shmittah yr and right after are very hard to come by!I had one orange,until MONDAY(I dont usually buy at the mekolet here its too expensive) I didnt' expect her to bring food w/her,I said that's what I do.I try and provide everything a guest would need.
in israel everyone is aware of hardships and dont put more on their host or hostess than need to.this is an unwritten rule.hospitality is finding a place that will provide u with food for shabbos,and company.I try to provide all the things they might need while staying by us,as u mentioned.but if I gave them a no named toothbrush(based on your example),its plain rude to tell me,u dont use that kind,do I have a reach toothbrush!
same thing w/the soap,I arranged a basked w/towel,handtowel and a bar of soap.but the soap isn't good enough u need bodywash.which I didnt have.
btw
I did ask her was there anything that she ate or didnt eat.she told me she is very flexible and likes everything.go figure.

when shmittah yr first began,I had some sem girls ask me could they bring anything,and they wanted to come early to help me(which was very nice).I told them no,I didnt require anything.well obviously they wanted to bring something,maybe they asked the dorm mother, I dont know,but these girls showed up,w a bag of potatoes and onions!!!bc when they realized where I lived they knew,I shlepp things from town an hr away by bus!!

the living room thing was just a sidenote I wasn't upset AT ALL that she was in it.I was just curious what others do in that situation.
I didnt expect her to stay in her room to read,but after shabbos when she mentioned that she would be up all night again,I could not let that happen.knowing no one in my family slept,and I dont think my dh RY would be too sympathetic to my dh not being up to par in his learning.it wasn't necessary for her to stay over motzei shabbos,just convenient.

being the worst hostess ever is maybe bc I felt I should have let her stay another night.
I no longer feel bad about what I did.

we dont expect the perfect guest,but we hope that they are a mentsch,or just considerate.and when they aren't, u grin and bare it.when they leave u shake your head at the wonders of the tests u are given.

mimivan

Tue, Feb 10 2009, 10:20 am

Micki...I hear you...but I think many of us were taught from the time we were small children not to ask a host or hostess for something that isn't offered to you...(unless it is really necessary and something you know they have enough of)..
but that's a good thing to keep in mind...to have enough in store..
still...she should not have demanded the last orange...I had a guest once who demanded the last piece of cake...I gave it to her..my son was annoyed. But hey, that's the mitzvah of hachnosas orchim..sometimes, like the mitzva of tzedaka it hurts a bit.

But I think the OP had every right to be annoyed..

Fox

Tue, Feb 10 2009, 10:26 am

This guest sounds like a close relative of a few guests I've had over the years. I don't have much to add; it sounds like she was either completely unfamiliar with life in Israel (even more than I am, which says a lot!) or just a real lulu! However, I will add a story:

About three years ago, a man whom we'd often hosted as a single called a few weeks before Pesach to ask if he and his new wife could spend Pesach in our guest room. Our house is far from luxurious by U.S. standards, and the guest room is definitely nothing special. I should have been suspicious when he asked a million questions about the type of beds we had -- it seems the kallah had a bad back -- but I answered the questions, offered some options, and went right ahead.

As soon as I agreed to host them, I got three or four calls from aquaintances, all warning me about the kallah. I did a little investigation into their complaints and decided that there was nothing dangerous in the situation -- just annoying, perhaps. So far, so good.

The couple showed up Erev Pesach, and the kallah launched a week-long marathon of princess snits because we didn't seem to have anything that suited her -- from the thread-count of the sheets to a lack of bottled water (we generally use filtered tap water). At one point, she accused us of stealing her contact lense solution, and I had to firmly point out that no one in our family wears contact lenses, and we wouldn't know what to do with it. She then argued that perhaps we were jealous that she had contact lenses! By the last days of Pesach, we were hiding on the second floor as much as possible to avoid her!

Fast forward a few years, and the Kallah Princess is now divorced. While there are always two or more stories in such a situation, apparently this was a situation where the obvious culprit wasn't the guilty party. It seems that her husband had a significant addiction that she discovered, and she had grown and matured enormously through her experiences.

She is now a tremendously giving, caring individual who just finished making a chassunah -- by herself, for all intents and purposes -- for a young baalas t'shuva. I'll admit that she's still not one of my favorite people in the world; she still sometimes lets loose with a very princess-y comment. But she's not the same person who came to my home a few years ago.

So sometimes people do change. Sometimes the behavior someone exhibits as a guest is either an aberration or part of a very self-centered period from which they emerge. The mitzvah of hachnoses orchim is terribly difficult. On one hand, I know plenty of people who believe that hachnoses orchim means inviting only attractive, appealing, fun guests. That's obviously not the right approach. On the other hand, you can't become a doormat for every permanently or temporarily discontented person on the planet. Sometimes you can only do your best, and then come to imamother to say, "Can you really believe she did that?" and make sure you haven't gone completely nuts!

zaq

Wed, Feb 11 2009, 8:21 am

I haven't and don't intend to read 70 posts in response, but IMO you mistitled the thread. It should have been worst GUEST ever. I'd probably have thrown this guest out on Shabbos, and her bags after her.

Isramom8

Wed, Feb 11 2009, 8:57 am

Okay, that girl was over the top. In general though, agreeing to have sleepover guests means agreeing to take a more laid back attitude than usual. I try to anticipate inconveniences. For example, last Thursday night when I made macaroni and cheese, I made a double batch because we were having bochurim for Shabbos and takeh, they were hungry Motzaei Shabbos and ate it microwaved before going back to yeshiva. This week it's girls, so I bought individual bags of chips and a couple boxes of rogelach for their room. When the boys were talking late at night outside our bedroom, instead of going out to give them mussar, I tried knocking on my bedroom door from the inside, and they quieted down after shushing one another a few times.

Some guests are a little inconveniencing but tolerable and worth the special experience of having them. On the other hand, when we let our son have 7 friends sleep over on his bar mitzva Shabbos, they kept us up all night - not doing that again!

shosh

Wed, Feb 11 2009, 9:02 am

As someone who goes away for Shabbos quite often, I am now starting to get very scared and I hope that I don't fall into the same category as this individual!

Truth is, bc in the past I used to have a lot of guests in my home I know what would annoy a host and I try very hard to avoid those things. For example, if I think the family/host and hostess would like some time to themselves without me hanging about, I'll retreat to my room. Same if I see that everyone has gone to bed and only the dh is up. I will only eat the last piece of whatever if it is offered to me and I feel the offer is genuine and not made out of politeness.

At the same time, where I fall down is that sometimes I get invited somewhere and I end up bringing ds with me and I confess that occasionally I have brought two kids with me. I feel really bad when I've done that and I always tell the friend to say if it really is an inconvenience as I hate putting pple out. In the beginning, when the kids were unsettled, this didn't always work. But by the same token, I need to get away as I lead a very pressured existence, so if I don't ask I'll never go ... I just hope other pple don't see it as selfish ...

greenfire

Wed, Feb 11 2009, 9:05 am

you know all this talking had me remembering - I once took a couple of grapes from a kid while he was eating ... but I think there were enough in his bowl and I needed a quick pick me up due to low blood sugar ... but what if that was all the kid eats and that was all the mom had ... it's been in my mind ... although I'm sure he survived ... but I only realized it after ...

shosh

Wed, Feb 11 2009, 9:22 am

I think my worst hostess story was when I touched base with someone I hadn't seen for a while. (I don't want to give too much away in case she's on here ...) She invited me for Shabbos and allowed me to bring ds and dd with me. I asked her if it would be too much and we could take a raincheck until there was a time when I was on my own, but she said no problem. She also said her house would be full that week with sem girls, married kids, etc. When I asked again if that was a problem, she said no, it would be very nice and we'd all have a good time.

Everything was fine at first. On Friday night, I went to bed with my dd. As ds was reading and I was tired, I left him up but told him to go to bed soon. In the morning, as soon as I opened my bedroom door, I was greeted by Ms. X, as we'll call her, who very angrily told me that ds had slept on the sofa last night. I asked why, and she explained that he didn't want to go to his room. Speaking to DS, I found out that he was afraid to go up to his room, which was up a rope ladder in the attic. As DS wasn't used to climbing such ladders (he was 11 yrs old), he was scared. DS told me that SHE had suggested he sleep on the couch, and had brought him bedding. As he didn't think that was a problem therefore, he went to sleep ... Ms. X, however, evidently did think it was a problem, AND SHE SCREAMED AT ME ABOUT IT IN FRONT OF HER OTHER GUESTS in a really nasty way!!! As for me, I was totally dumbfounded bc I didn't know what she was going on about as I had only just woken up! Her adult son was so embarrassed by her behaviour that he approached me afterwards and apologised, saying his mother had some phobia or other about pple sleeping on the couch ... (like I am supposed to know ...)

Although I tried hard to be pleasant, it was really difficult, especially as the other guests were all very embarrassed around me by then. As for my kids, neither of whom are exactly my easiest but usually behave very well when they are around other pple, the atmosphere was shot. As young kids do when they are uncomfortable, they started to act out. When everyone else went for a rest, they behaved terribly. My ds felt very antagonistic around Ms. X, who kept ordering him around and lecturing him at different points. When everyone got up again, there was Ms. X giving me a hard time again about my kids' behaviour and their noise. Basically, she wiped the floor with me and made me feel really uncomfortable. (And I have never received such complaints from anyone else about them.) Although she did apologise at one point for being so critical of me and said that next time, ds would have to sleep in with me, I decided that there would never be a next time.

As soon as Shabbos was out, we were on the first bus home. I have never seen such treatment to a guest before. While I could understand that she didn't like my son sleeping on the couch, she should have a) been a little clearer about to him in a nice way bc at the age of 11 he wouldn't undersand that by himself, and called me to deal with the situation or put me in with him, and b) if she had something to say, she should not have said it (or rather shouted it) in front of her other guests.

Needless to say, although I've spoken to her here and there, I have never been in touch with her for hospitality or anything else like that again.

greenfire

Wed, Feb 11 2009, 9:49 am

the rope ladder sounds kool ... not so much the hostess ... Confused

queen

Wed, Feb 11 2009, 10:31 am

OP- your guest is definitely missing many screws. She does not sound pleasant and I would never have put up with her. It's your home, don't feel like you can't say something, if it's not comfortable for you. For ex. the lights- she didn't need them on for medical reasons.... so I would have nicely told the guest "I'm sorry, in order that the kids sleep through the night, lights must go off at 1am"

You don't need to be a mat. Remember, it's your home. You want to make your guests feel comfortable of course, but don't let them walk all over you Exclamation

queen

Wed, Feb 11 2009, 10:34 am

wrote:

The other side of the story is: (heard first hand from hosts that have seminary girls in Israel)
They (the hosts) find it very disturbing when seminary girls come for shabbos meals, don't add anything to the conversations at the table and just sit there. And when they are not at the table, sleep the shabbos away.

They (the hosts) feel "used" as if the girls just came for free food.

We need to educate our girls that when they go to someone else's home, they must contribute and be nice company. Nice company=== (use your own imagination)

Isramom8

Wed, Feb 11 2009, 11:16 am

"Her adult son was so embarrassed by her behaviour that he approached me afterwards and apologised, saying his mother had some phobia or other about pple sleeping on the couch ..."

I really think one should have guests only if and when one is emotionally able to relax with guests around. When I can't, I dont (except if it's a relative I can't refuse, or if they were already expecting to come).

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