Both spouses in 45+ hr/wk ofc jobs...what to do for school?

tovarena

Mon, Apr 27 2009, 9:43 pm

We're trying to figure out our child care situation for next year. Right now, we have a situation that's about as close to ideal as we could find (well, short of me being able to stay home full time with the kids...which is unfortunately, still just a dream). 3 days a week they're with a friend who's home with her own kids and homeschools them. And 2 days a week they're in a "pre-school" program in the school where there's a good chance they'll stay when they start real school. They're in day care from 8-5 every day. I work 7:30 to 4:30 plus a half hour commute each way. DH works 8:30-6 with about a 20 minute commute. So he drops the kids off, I pick up. It works - for now.
The problem is, we're anticipating that the school is going to start pressuring us to send the kids full time next year. They're already the reason why the kids are there two days a week instead of one - the babysitter only has one a day a week that she's unavailable but after a few months at school, the school asked us to commit to a second day a week as well. It's understandable - especially since we have two kids in the same classroom, it's hard for them to hire appropriately when we're only there one day a week.
But what's so ideal about this arrangement is when the school is closed for one of their myriad holidays (2 weeks for pesach and succos, 1 week for yeshiva break, teacher work days, etc) that regular companies are still open, we can ask the sitter to take a few extra days. She's always happy to. If we go full time to school, though, we're assuming she'll take another job and won't necessarily be available to watch our kids all those extra days.

Are there any other women out there that deal with both you and DH in corporate 8-5-type jobs? I mean, our bosses have been pretty understanding when the kids are sick or whatnot, but we can't take off all those extra days. And working from home is okay if one kid is home sick, but if they're both home, even if our bosses would let us, it's almost impossible to get a full 8 hours in.

All of this also got me to thinking about what happens when they start "real school" that gets out at 2:30 or 3:00 and doesn't come with the extended after-care that the day-care part of the school offers. DH says they'll just go home with friends every day. That seems like it might be either an awful lot of juggling to find enough friends, or too imposing on just one or two friends to take them every day. Is this what other dual-career couples do?

I know I'm worrying before it's an issue, but it would save me a lot of worrying if I knew there was some easier way that families handle this. Just curious.

amother

Mon, Apr 27 2009, 10:16 pm

I'm not in that situation. But I can tell you a bit about me. My parents were either in school or worked till after seven usually. I was the youngest and and their work/school sit. had not always been like that, hence no prob with my older sibs. It started a bit after I started school so my mother hired local people. One year it was a high school girl, one year it was a family, that I went to after school, all on my block. That way I was also able to play a bit outside with my friends. But this did start around 1st grade, I don't know if it's shayach for younger kids.

Marion

Mon, Apr 27 2009, 11:57 pm

We have that. Daycare is 7-4 (4:30 with the extended day). My contract says 8:30-5 (I work 7:45 to 3:45 and make up the extra 2.5 hours on Friday morning); DH works from either 9:30 or 10:30 until 7:30 (3 days a week). He's off Monday afternoon & Tuesday. Next year gan is only from 7:30, and tzaharon is only until 4 (no extended hours), so I'm not sure what we're going to do on the 3 days DH works late. Unless I find a way to work 5 hours on Fridays...Not possible since he'd only be in gan for 5 hours and it's a 1/2 hour commute too.

Tamiri

Tue, Apr 28 2009, 3:51 am

tovarena wrote:

DH says they'll just go home with friends every day. That seems like it might be either an awful lot of juggling to find enough friends, or too imposing on just one or two friends to take them every day. Is this what other dual-career couples do?

I know I'm worrying before it's an issue, but it would save me a lot of worrying if I knew there was some easier way that families handle this. Just curious.

You really can't count on going home with friends every day, unless you pay them. Everyone has their own life. It's a good thing you are thinking about it now, before it's an issue so that you can come to some agreement before the time. I think that if there is no after-school program, what is common is to hire someone with a car. You can start within the community (maybe there is a mother looking to pick up some extra income), then move on to a community newspaper ect. The person hired is responsible to come and pick up the children, take them home (yours? theirs?) and watch them until you arrive. There really are no other reliable choices. Are you sure the school doesn't have after care? What do the other parents do? Maybe ask around.

ss321

Tue, Apr 28 2009, 6:34 am

wowtovarena, that sounds tough! but not impossible. I think you are much "safer" finding someone who can commit to your kids EVERY DAY for the hour or two till one of you gets home, than having it be a babysitter one day, friend the next, etc. Check local newspapers, check craigslist, luach.com, etc. often times, there are SAHM's who are willing to do this for extra money (watch your kids in their home). that might not be the best option - mainly because- how will they get there? Maybe like a seminary girl or college girl - only has classes in [morning/evening] and is free for those few hours - if she has a car, you can pay her to pick them up, bring them home, and babysit, until you get home. Even your old babysitter- if you are willing to pay her, for a daily thing like that, even if the amt you are paying her is far less than what you paid her for homeschooling 3d/wk, etc,maybe she would be willing to commit to that if she finds some other way to fill the rest of her day?

tovarena

Tue, Apr 28 2009, 8:52 am

I think the school does have some sort of after-school program because there are a couple of kids still hanging out there some days when I come at 5 to pick up my kids. But I know there are a lot of days that it doesn't function - early dismissal days, Fridays, etc. because on those days when I get the kids, we are the very last people there. I don't really get it - for working parents, it's even harder to take off that much earlier to get the kids. Whatever. I know schools are not supposed to be baby-sitters. But at the same time, if we didn't both work full-time we couldn't afford to pay them any tuition either. <sigh>...okay, I'm getting off topic....

Anyway, good suggestions, thanks. We don't know many of the parents yet since the baby program is rather separated from the rest of the school, but maybe we'll could find someone even within those parents who would be interested in that kind of a job. I guess I've just always rather doubted it since a) it means needing room for two more kids in the car, and b) the hour or two immediately after school seems to be crazy hour for a lot of people and I can't imagine that many women would want two more kids making things even crazier. But if we can't, maybe the idea of a college girl would be workable - someone who could pick them up, bring them to our house and watch them until we get home (maybe even help them get started on homework? That would be fantastic!).

And what do y'all do about all the extra days off that schools take throughout the year? Do you and DH have enough vacation time to cover being home with them all those days. Do you also hire someone for those days?
Marion, in E'Y, do companies typically close on the yom-tov related days when the kids are off (erev yom tovs and chol hamoeds)? Since aliyah is still a real possibility in the next year or two, we've wondered if issues like this would be any easier there.

RachelEve14

Tue, Apr 28 2009, 9:00 am

Not Marion but I can answer anyway Smile

In EY there is no gan on erev YT, YT, or Isru Chag. There is maon (daycare) on Isru chag, and I think erev YT. In gan it's tzharon that picks up the gap, so a tzharon will pick up the kids after gan and keep them in a gan (for public) or at her house (for private) until 4:00 or 4:30. Tzharon also usually works days the gan is off but are normal days (lag b'omer, chanucha, etc), and they will pick up on days gan dismisses early (not Friday, but if the gan gets out early on some random Tuesday the tzharon will pick up). Private tzharonim here pick up kids in July from teh various backyard camp places, and everyone scrambles in August to find child care.

ss321

Tue, Apr 28 2009, 9:06 am

lol. tovarena you would be surprised and shocked to hear the things you can PAY other people to do for you. Sure, a harried mom of 5 ages 2- 12 might not want to do it, but a SAHM with two kids, one being in preschool, one being in eighth grade, might be willing to do it if she wants the extra cash.
college/sem girls are great. in brooklyn, there are many girls who work during the day/have seminary in the afternoon, and an equal # (if not more) of girls who are in touro during the evening and have free time during the day. I have lists and lists of who to call for when, if I dont have an available parent/sibling/cousin to help out and were in a jam. And my kids are still YOUNG! but if you are organized like that, you dont get stressed when things dont work out.
which leads me to the next thing. days off/sick days, etc. It really depends here. If the days off are days before Yom Tov that you really WANT to spend with them anyway, then yes, by all means, split your days off, thats why you have them! spend them with your family Smile

. Even if it means taking an "unpaid" day off. Its worth it in the long run. 10 yrs from now you wont look back and say, I couldve made (80/800) dollars more working on wednesday august 5....you know what I mean? but if you cant - again -thats what the list is for. When my babysitter cant come, I know who to call - that would be my study-by-day/touro-by-night list of girls.
Have backups. Have backups for the backups. Just know that if things go wrong, you have someone to call. It is doable. more complicated than being a SAHM and taking care of it all yourself (so you KNOW what will get done, and you can 100% 'depend' on yourself), but nevertheless very doable.

ss321

Tue, Apr 28 2009, 9:09 am

also tovarena, IDK where you live or what your housing situation looks like, but maybe you can also consider like an aupair type option? you have a college age girl live with you sometimes from overseas (ie you give her free room and board) and in return she chips in with some of the childcare?
its not really done much in brooklyn, but in out of town places its not unheard of. ppl have like israeli girls live with them for the year - they work doing this n that during the day to make a bit of extra, and mon-fri they help out with the kids, babysitting and stuff like that. weekends (or some just shabbos or some just sunday) they leave with their friends and do their own thing. I dont know where to look for things like that (because thats not a setup we ever considered- when we first got full time help when I started school, we were in a small apt and there was no way such a thing would work), but you can try all the jewish magazines and weeklies? also luach.com?

Mrs Bissli

Tue, Apr 28 2009, 3:59 pm

I also work F/T, 8:30-5:30 with about 30-45min commute. The school is 8:20-3:30 and I have a part-time nanny who picks up kids and stay till I come home. I also have a few "back-up" (one is in university, another is a high-school girl usually available early evenings, another is a lady in her 50s happy to get some extra Â£s) to cover sick child/sick nanny/school holiday situation. Though it helps DH has some flexibility in the afternoons (if he's not learning/teaching).

You may want to inquire if the school has coach/van/bus services. It helps me great deal in the morning as we can all leave around the same time and I can still be at work on time. Agree trying to do car-pooling is difficult, # of kids/carseats, some kids have after-school activities, birthday parties/after-school activities etc. It helps if you can do after-school activities, but it costs money and young ones get too tired. For school holidays etc, there are usually some women who organise craft camps, drama classes etc (usually fullday with lunches, 6yrs and up) but again it costs money. I use these activities maybe 1-2 days, arrange play dates, and DH (who has more flexibility) stay at home and me working from home 1-2 days.

levial

Tue, Apr 28 2009, 4:13 pm

We are in your boat - with just one child.

I send DD who is 3 to school the full week. Friday is hard, as school is out at 2:30 but sometimes DH and I have meetings, etc that require a little juggling.

I have the issue with Chagim, chol hamoeds, too - the 2 weeks of Pesach were hard. Weds, Monday Tue Weds I juggled.

My secret to success - a nice 60 year old bubby type. She likes the extra cash. We try to use her once/week for going out (1-3 hours at a time) so DD stays current and likes her. We used her on Chol ha moeds, winter break. She planned nice art projects, etc with DD> she enjoys entertaining her but since her own grandchildren are not here, she h as the time.

II also have a non-Jewish college student to cover other things - that way "oh, my family is here for Pesach I don't think I can watch her chol ha moed" doesn't happen.

tovarena

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 9:48 am

pecan wrote:

Is it an option for any of you to cut back on your hours?
This is part of the reason I never worked full time. It sounds really complicated.

It is really complicated - and not easy. If I had the option to cut back on hours I would. Unfortunately, in my current position that's not an option, even if we could afford it. And I'm not in a position to look for something else at just this time.

Thanks everyone. It sounds like getting a part-time nanny will end up being the answer, whether that's a bubby-type or a college girl.

SS321, we briefly considered the options such as au pair when I first went back to work. But we only have a smallish 3 bedroom place. And besides, a number of people had au pairs in our area back in the 80s and 90s and there were a number of concerns we heard from people about it - from kashrus to yichud.

Levial, what DO you do when your DD is out at 2:30? Since I work until 4:30 with a lunch hour, the deal I've made with my employer is that I forgo my lunch hour on Fridays and leave at 3:30. It's fine for this time of year but I really worry about how we'll manage when we get back into November/December again.

levial

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 11:37 am

How do you do it? First put yourself in your boss's shoes. He/she has needs. Look at the job description. Think about what your boss might ask. Then approach him with a solution. Again, not "I NEED" but "here's a solution"

"First of all, I wanted to ask some feedback...are you getting what you need from me? I wanted to have a touchpoint and make sure your needs are being met. (good to have a periodic dialogue on this)

I did want to mention something>>> due to my religious commitments I do not drive on the Sabbath...it means I need to be home on Fridays 2 hours before sunset. In the summer it is not an issue, but it will be when it gets darker earlier. Additionally, there are some holidays that I will need to leave early for, such as one coming up in May. I can take a few hours of personal time off, but I do know that the team needs me...
In looking at my workload and what my duties are, on Fridays I need to be "on call" for questions from my team. Over the past months, I typically get 4 calls between 12 and 2, and after 2pm I typically get 0. So I will provide my cellphone to the team but I don't anticipate that they'll need it. I can see emails via blackberry and will monitor them until sundown. On Saturday night I will just check and make sure all is covered, and handle it then if not. Just as with vacations, I will also have a backup. I have chosen so and so, who can really use the development in terms of his team dynamic. It will help him be stronger in conflict resolution issues.
I also want to assure you that I put in my hours. As you know I typically take work home, and I plan to work at least an additional hour on Thursday from home to ensure the minimum hours are covered . In any case, I'll provide my Monday report to you as always.
I'm glad we had a chance to catch up on this. Do you have any questions or concerns?"

This allows me to work from home, leave at 2;30, get DD and cover the work. The winter requires a lot more "thursday" planning and cooking...

Otherwise, I have another mommy pick her up, (booster seat provided) and I come at 3:30 if there is something in office I have to stay for.

SomebodyElse

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 12:47 pm

tovarena wrote:

what DO you do when your DD is out at 2:30? Since I work until 4:30 with a lunch hour, the deal I've made with my employer is that I forgo my lunch hour on Fridays and leave at 3:30. It's fine for this time of year but I really worry about how we'll manage when we get back into November/December again.

What I (and others I know) do is work longer hours the rest of the week. Instead of 8 hours M-F, in the winter I try to do 9 hours M-Th, and just 4 on Fri. B"H, my managers have been very accommodating. We do have a pretty flexible environment to begin with.

Could you just give up a few more lunch hours during the winter?