No one ever IS Downs! even those that have DS

amother

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 4:38 am

Clarissa wrote:

Ah, I get it. The thread is just about the fact that the condition is a noun and not an adjective? That, I get. It was getting pretty confusing here, with all of the other stuff going on.

yeah well look, it's ok even if you don't "get it". The point is that some parents do find it upsetting so even if you weren't to "get it", the point is to be aware that this is an issue for some people. I'm not sure why people on this thread feel the need to justify why they still will use that terminology when all we are asking for is a slight change of lingo and awareness.

ss321

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 4:50 am

Raisin wrote:

ss321 wrote:

raisin, no offense, but you ARE indeed naive if that is what you think!
do some reading on diabetes. it defines you. it controls you. its like an endless vortex of a pit you cant climb out of. Unless you have suffered from every single illness out there you cannot compare.
there is no such thing as "uncomplicated" diabetes.

I have a close relative with diabetes (type 1) and actually no, it does not affect this person greatly. people would probably only know if they were told about it. so thats why I mentioned diabetes.

how old is she? she is very lucky then.

amother

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 4:57 am

hadasa wrote:

Actually, I thought it was about adjectives vs. syndromes, but I see some people consider adjectives like diabetic, autistic to be offensive as well, even if they are grammatically correct.

OP here, yes I've been corrected before when referring to someone as an autistic child. and no I didn't say it as in hows your autistic child but in a discussion where I discussing the fact that he had it.
The person who corrected me is the mother of a child with DS

ss321

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 4:59 am

amother wrote:

ss321 wrote:

My husband was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes a few years ago. It does NOT at all control his life, and certainly doesn't define him. He just has to watch what he eats. Nobody, (not even his parents) even know that he has it. I would never call him 'a diabetic'. I rather say he 'has diabetes', or better yet he 'has high blood sugar', just like others 'have high cholesterol'. But who am I fooling? The word 'diabetic' IS a word in the dictionary, as is 'autistic'. But just because I dont like it, I cant expect others to stop using that term.

B"H for him. I didnt mean to "insult" anyone w/ diabetes at all by my post! diabetes (especially uncontrolled diabetes) can wreak havoc on someones life (as Im sure his doctor warned him).
Sorry to anyone I offended. I guess I have just seen maybe one too many case of people with amputated fingers, toes, and even entire limbs, due to the horrible sequalae of this disease. Pts with glaucoma too, patients who have gone blind, heart attacks, kidney failure (--> transplant and immunosupressive drugs for the rest of your life / dialysis a few x / wk for the rest of your life), etc. Not trying to scare you- B"H your husband is healthy. But the people who dont watch it, and arent careful enough with their blood sugar - well, it can be really really dangerous, and so sad.

ss321

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 5:01 am

ChavieK wrote:

I have had a few people while asking about my kids, identify him this way. Most people will ask how my little one is. The people who use this as an identifier will ask about my married one, or my dark haired girl. They think it is on the same level as an identifying trait or characteristic.

WOW!!! I AM REALLY REALLY SHOCKED. that is terrible.
I know quite a few people who have kids with DS. One its her only girl - so its "hows ur little princess" or little cutie, etc.
Otherwise- theyre reffered to by their names just like ANY OTHER CHILD. or if I dont remember a name - some identifier - hows your mets fanatic doing (the boy with DS)? hows your little masmid (brother who is was valedictorian and is very bright)?
that is really appaling, im sorry!

ss321

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 5:04 am

amother wrote:

When I called my doctor's office yestersday, I did NOT identify myself as "the stillborn delivered on X"!
I am Mrs. Y, who delivered a stillborn!

(Hmmm... did she yell to the doctor while I was on hold, "Hey, the stillborn's on Line 3"?)

wow. also really unprofessional.
if that was me, I wouldve said something to the doctor, about her secretarys unprofessional behavior. Let your OB know that you are not stillborn, you are [#] of years old and your mother did not deliver a stillborn, YOU did, and you were offended by her unprofessional matter.
gosh. not that it makes it right if she actually did press the hold button and then yelled it out, but to say it while you can hear? OMG.

ss321

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 5:09 am

amother wrote:

Clarissa wrote:

I'm saying that I now get the point of the thread. Would you mind telling me why you're still arguing with me, amother?

whao calm down, I'm not arguing with you. I'm referring to all those other posts like the amother on the first page that was very defensive. Sorry I wasn't more specific.

yea, people do.
I think it depends on the context, like you pointed out before -
"the diabetic patient down the hall" - is not gonna become "the brunette-haired mother of three in the third room on the right who has diabetes." In a medical context- her diabetes is the topic of discussion so that is how she is "described" or identified.
however "the diabetic girl sitting at the table over there" (because she has an insulin pump so at the restaurant you realize she is diabetic) is inappropriate. "the girl sitting at that table - the one with brown hair - see - shes wearing a purple dress over there" - is a little more polite and less busy-bodyish.

"baby with down syndrome and an arrhythmia in the NICU" = appropriate. "baby with down syndrome in the car seat on the bench" isnt. Whats wrong with "baby with the blue hat in the grey and purple car seat" instead.

Clarissa

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 5:43 am

amother wrote:

Clarissa wrote:

I'm saying that I now get the point of the thread. Would you mind telling me why you're still arguing with me, amother?

whao calm down, I'm not arguing with you. I'm referring to all those other posts like the amother on the first page that was very defensive. Sorry I wasn't more specific.

Great. So the next time you want to not argue with me, how about not using my quote, or at least make it clear that you're not arguing with my point?

YALT

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 8:11 am

chocolate moose wrote:

People are waaaay too sensitive. Describing someone is not evaluating or judging them.

Exactly, my thoughts!

And by the way, yesterday morning I wrote something on one of these threads, but it got erased when the server went down. And it seems that the post htat it was referring to was also lost.

Someone wrote the following (in their own words - sorry I can't quote from there. Doesn't exist anymore):
Here in USA we call the syndrome Down Syndrome. In places like England they call it Downs Syndrome, but since we're here, we can't call it Downs for short, as that would be longer than the actual term"

My problem with that is:
First of all, this board consists of many women from around the world. It is not davka meant "just for US women". In fact, the creator of this amazing site, doesn't even live in the US!
Second, many people live in USA, who originate from abroad. They don't change their language overnight. Am I not allowed to tell my son to bring me a nappy because that word isn't the way it's said here in USA?

Raisin

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 8:13 am

ss321 wrote:

amother wrote:

Clarissa wrote:

I'm saying that I now get the point of the thread. Would you mind telling me why you're still arguing with me, amother?

whao calm down, I'm not arguing with you. I'm referring to all those other posts like the amother on the first page that was very defensive. Sorry I wasn't more specific.

obviously for some people it is important to know that someone has a medical condition like diabetes. I taught in a school once where a kid had diabetes, and there was a whole list of info on what to do if she suffered an attack (or whatever it is called when they need to have sugar fast) But I don't think anyone called this kid the diabetic kid. why would they? she had plenty of other things about her you could use to describe her.

and I agree it is shockingly rude to refer to a kid as "the downs kid". how about a name?

could be worse, ds kids used to be known as "mongols".

ss, my relative is young, about 25. also type 1 and type 2 are very different, aren't they?

amother

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 10:23 am

You can use the word nappy all you want but when you live in a place where that isn't the terminology used, you run the risk of noone understanding you. There may even be some words that could be offensive. I don't even get all the fuss, why are you making such a big deal about it. If the parents of the child asked you to stop just say ok I'll do my best, & be happy that you don't have to deal with it yourself.

louche

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 10:53 am

amother wrote:

Uhm, yeah, British mothers, don't EVER say the term "nappy" aloud in African-American neighborhoods in the US unless you have a very strong desire to be beaten up or worse. (Even if you hear the locals say the word. What's acceptable among peers is not acceptable from an outsider.) The American word for cloth used to swaddle a baby's nether parts is "diaper". You can thank me later.

amother

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 4:50 pm

Edited by Zus.

YALT
I did see your post and no other post before yours was deleted. I remember which one was the last before yours and it's still there.
the post you refer to is in this thread
http://www.imamother.com/forum.....rt=20
3rd to last post by ChavieK

so you got the wrong thread, I'm not the one making that point. I also had trouble understanding what the fuss over british english versus US was

I didn't respond to your post when I read it because if you had been responding to my post then it didn't add up. I'm not hurt and if you read hurt in my post then it was your own misperception.
I merely started this thread to educate.
I liked your response on the other thread when it was pointed out to you and have no issue with you.
I would have thought you'd appreciate a thread like this since you appreciated when it was pointed out to you earlier but if you are mixing up threads now then that would explain it.

amother

Thu, Apr 30 2009, 4:52 pm

I should have posted this seperately so I'm posting it again

YALT
I did see your post and no other post before yours was deleted. I remember which one was the last before yours and it's still there.
the post you refer to is in this thread
http://www.imamother.com/forum.....p;start=20
3rd to last post by ChavieK

so you got the wrong thread, I'm not the one making that point. I also had trouble understanding what the fuss over british english versus US was

I didn't respond to your post when I read it because if you had been responding to my post then it didn't add up. I'm not hurt and if you read hurt in my post then it was your own misperception.
I merely started this thread to educate.
I liked your response on the other thread when it was pointed out to you and have no issue with you.
I would have thought you'd appreciate a thread like this since you appreciated when it was pointed out to you earlier but if you are mixing up threads now then that would explain it.