Life insurance | Imamother

shanie5

Sat, Mar 11 2006, 11:32 pm

I read the book " a tzaddik in our time" many years ago. it is about R' Aryeh Levine, and in it there was a part about life insurance. He refused to buy any. once, he came close to buying some from a talmid-just to help w/ his parnassa-and ended up not buying it. his reasoning was this
"if the satan goes to hashem and says ' R' Levine has done such and such and deserves death', then hashem will say "but he has a wife and kids who need him to support them', the satan will think a minute and say 'ahh, but he has life insurance.....'

so there is a source for ILOVELIFE's reasoning. I understand it completely. I'm just not on that madrega to be w/o it.

Motek

Sun, Mar 12 2006, 7:19 pm

shanie5 wrote:

thanks shanie - I knew this line of reasoning but didn't remember it's in this book

I don't see the logic in saying that this approach is only for tzadikim. What he's saying has nothing to do with bitachon! He's saying that Hashem takes everything into account, and when the question arises as to whether someone's life will be taken, heaven forbid, all ramifications are taken into account including the fact that they do or don't have life insurance. It's quite practical!

chen - you have every right to your opinion but I think it's wrong of you and others to denounce ILOVELIFE'S rebbe's view as being idiotic.

where's the sensitivity? where's the respect for others?

is it more important to have and promote life insurance than to speak nicely?

shoshb - I think that makes sense, I wonder what her rebbe would respond to that, ILOVELIFE - can you ask?

and p.s. ILOVELIFE is a great screen name ... very appropriate! Wink

chen

Mon, Mar 13 2006, 8:57 am

Motek wrote:

to denounce ILOVELIFE'S rebbe's view as being idiotic.

where's the sensitivity? where's the respect for others?

is it more important to have and promote life insurance than to speak nicely?

Please do not misquote me, as you are yourself most indignant when people misquote you. I didn't say it was idiotic--I said it was "foolish beyond permission"--which is a much gentler form of expression than I actually meant. I tempered my language to suit the delicacy of this forum. But as a matter of fact, since you brought it up, I DO think that attitude is idiotic and irresponsible. That is my opinion, to which I am entitled as you said, and I stand by it. As my grandfather OBM used to say, "zayt nit kein tzaddik oyf mayn cheshb'n"--don't be a saint at my expense. You want to be a tzaddik and prove your transcendent bitochon? Do it at YOUR expense, not at the expense of your wife and children. A man (or woman for that matter) who fails to provide for his/her family when he has an opportunity to do so is in my book a chossid shoteh in every sense.

I think it is VERY important to promote life insurance. Clearly you are not on the same schnorrer lists that I am. Literally every day I get one, two, or three letters pleading for money for the family of a talmid chochom who died without life insurance and the family doesn't know where their next meal is coming from. (That also bugs me, because it seems as if we care only about the families of talmidei chachochim who are left destitute. Apparently if the father was just a simple balebos, his orphans can starve for all anyone cares. But that is an issue for another thread...)

I am not going to persuade you and you are definitely not going to persuade me. How about we agree to disagree?

Motek

Sun, Mar 19 2006, 8:09 am

your post did not address what I pointed out

I did not express my view on having life insurance. Nor did I share with you the contents of my daily mail. And nor did I misquote you since the words "being idiotic" were not a quote but conveyed the content of your message, as you agreed it did.

All I said was that you expressed your view insensitively and rudely and you went on to do so once again.

the rules of civility apply to this section of the forum too

Nachisdoll

Wed, May 17 2006, 6:00 pm

I believe life insurance, healht insurance...these are responsibilities....I had this conv with a few freinds...if you can afford cell phones for each of you take out a plan! you, your husband and your children deserve to know no matter what theyll b ok...the rest is up to hashem! and yes I heard its a sgulah for long life along with buying a plot...not that I think buying a plot is a must... Wink

timeout

Thu, May 18 2006, 4:43 pm

For all those that think they cannot afford life insurance I would like to let u know I pay $250 a year for mine u do the math it really is pennies.

The importance of life insurance is uncomprehensible!

My friend who was married quite some years ago had K'H 4 kids and then her husband got Yeneh Machleh and sadly passed away, while she was sitting shivah the bills began to come.. the funeral, hospital, and all regular living expenses not including the kids school she couldn't afford her apartment anymore and had to move into her parents basement she's been living there for over 10 years and still has not finished paying back all the bills. She goes to school so she will never be in this position again I'H.

Motek

Sun, Oct 01 2006, 11:49 am

... the new programs announced this week by Kupat Ha'ir of Bnei Brak and the Vaad HaRabbonim LeInyonei Tzedokoh. With minor differences, they bring interested families together in very large groups (10,000-12,500) in order to provide the effects of an insurance policy. However the exact rules of the plan are different from the insurance industry in significant ways.

There are no monthly premiums. Rather, in the event of the death of a parent of one of the families in the group, each family agrees to pay $5 (or $4) on a one-time basis for each of the orphans. This provides a fund of $50,000 for each orphan which is supervised by the rabbonim of the charity, and is to be used primarily to pay the marriage expenses of that orphan. (The rules also provide for a cap of $18 (or $16) in one month, so that the one-time payments may have to be spread out over several months if there are many orphans in one month, R"l.)

It should be noted that they differ in subtle but enormously important ways from traditional insurance.

In buying a traditional insurance policy, the considerations are just those of any business decision. Do the benefits of the promised payout justify the cost of the monthly premium?

In this new plan, since they are applied directly to providing funds for orphans, the payments are pure charity. (This can make the plan attractive even to those who have married off all of their children.) Participants receive the benefits of classical insurance because of their commitment to give charity on demand. In a moral sense, that is a pure win-win result.

http://chareidi.shemayisrael.c.....6.htm

mali

Mon, Oct 02 2006, 5:02 pm

Motek, my brother called them for details because he wanted to join this project. Turns out, there's a loophole there. If CH"V a person passes away, THEY DECIDE WHETHER THE FAMILY IS ELIGIBLE shock

In other words, a couple could have been paying their share for years, and then, when they CH"V need this money, the board gets together and decides if they qualify. So they can come to a conclusion that since the parents are well-off, or the spouse is working, or any other reason that their creative minds can come up with, then they don't get anything! And the logic behind it (I'm quoting them): "It's Tzedaka money, so we have to use it carefully". So for those of you who were considering it instead of life insurance, better stick to regular insurance plans. For those who wanted to do it purely for Tzedaka reasons, go ahead! Tizku Le'Mitzvos!

southernbubby

Mon, Feb 19 2007, 12:35 pm

The N'Shei Chabad newsletter recently had an article about life insurance. It made so much sense for young couples to try to insure both husband and wife. Unfortunately so many young couples struggle and do not even have that little bit to put aside each year. In one case, a man paid $15,000 over 22 years and his widow received a million dollars when he died. In another case, a mother of small children died uninsured and it cost her husband $100,000 in the first year that he had to replace her services as housekeeper and mother.

Motek

Thu, Mar 08 2007, 2:40 pm

re the program I posted about a few posts ago, what an embarrassment!

Rosenblum wrote an article about it in Mishpacha, issue 146, saying that since the plan sounded too good to be true, and troubled by his comparison of the plan to term insurance rates, he decided to consult a number of actuaries to see what they had to say. It turned out that the actuaries he knows were also very concerned about the proposed plan when it was first publicized and had even contacted some of the askanim responsible for the plan to express their grave reservations.

They explained that the numbers did not make sense and they noted a number of ways in which the plan might be in violation of Israeli insurance law.

The askanim involved listened and with the Jerusalem plan, at least, like mali posted, a committee will decide whether people will get money or not and participation in the plan is no guarantee that you will receive a certain amt.

Rosenblum concludes that it's a tzedaka plan, not an insurance plan. He thinks it's a good thing nonetheless since it will help the needy in a more dignified fashion.

He is perturbed by the way the plan was presented to the public, that the askanim didn't consult experts: actuaries and lawyers.

Marion

Thu, Mar 08 2007, 2:53 pm

I JUST took out life insurance yesterday. But it is part of my general bituach menahalim (director's insurance) from work, which also includes disability, pension, and unemployment insurance, and the premium is just deducted from my salary. I know this isn't an option for everybody (it wasn't for me, except that my contract states a net salary, not a gross, so the company factored in the benefit when they set my salary), but I still can't imagine leaving my family with nothing. DH would never manage (I'm the primary breadwinner), and I can't see leaving young children with no means of living.