is 2 years nursing clean for real?

amother

Fri, Jun 05 2009, 10:40 am

I also nurse clean , its been 21 months, I nurse a few times a day and also at night. If you put your baby on a schedule, or your baby sleeps though the night its much less likely to nurse clean. I also think that after each pregnancy your body slows down just a bit and it takes longer to get your period back.
There are advantages to both ways-1-don't nurse clean-but you get your sleep at night and you have more energy during the day, but then you have more kids so if you want 15-16 kids this is the way to go or 2-you nurse clean but you have to make other sacrifices like not sending your child to a babysitter or daycare, not sleeping your full 8 hours, but kids are every 2 1/2 years .

Hashem_Yaazor

Fri, Jun 05 2009, 11:04 am

amother wrote:

There have been several threads where people mentioned in the times of Gemara, women nursed clean for 2 yrs and then had a baby leading to age gap of 2 yrs, 9 mos.

My husband says there is an opinion that the 2 years of a meinekes is because she's likely to get pregnant soon, and doesn't mean they necessarily nursed clean for 2 years.

Hashem_Yaazor

Fri, Jun 05 2009, 11:09 am

amother wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I think most of us are missing OP's point. It's not that she doesn't believe people nurse clean....but how is it that it was one way in the times of the avos, another during gemara, and back to the way it was when moshiach comes?

Hey, maybe the fact that the average length for LA is 14 months these days instead of 2 is a sign moshiach is coming Wink

Truth is, in the times of the gemara, I'm not even sure they gave solids before 2. It could likely be they nursed clean because they exclusively nursed. We women today, in our busy lives and weakened states can't realistically expect to EBF that long, and that's why our periods/fertility on average returns sooner...

Thank you! People pain the gemara nursing timeline as the ideal but the time of Moshiach is supposed to be a perfect world which (according to some opinions at least) is 2 different pregnanvcies simultaneously

can't edit since it's "amother" but the word was supposed to be "paint"

2 years is the ideal...there are sources that say as much.
It doesn't mean they nursed clean though....
For instance, there is a halacha that a mother cannot remarry before her baby is 2 because the new husband might not want to pay for her baby to have food instead of nursing and he would want her to get pregnant with his baby (or something like that, I'm fuzzy on the details right now...)
So that means that 1)they nursed exclusively for longer 2)nursing did help some not get pregnant...

I really have no information on the times of moshiach...I never learned that gemara to have any insight into it Smile

I also wonder, in mitzrayim when they had 6 babies at a time, how did nursing work then? Smile

guesswho

Fri, Jun 05 2009, 11:35 am

I'm just wondering, in the time of Gemorah when most women nursed clean for 2 years, didn't their babies sleep through the night? or were they woken up to nurse, or nusrsed in their sleep?
My question applies in todays times too. There are babies who sleep through the night from a very young age, What is the mother suppose to do to prevent her period, latch on the sleeping baby? If the baby is sleeping it's probably not hungry, why overfeed it?

acccdac

Fri, Jun 05 2009, 11:45 am

I think every women is different and you can do things that are suspected to prolong nursing clean and it may or may not help. I say this cause I am the same human being who nursed 2 kids

1st, nursed clean for 8 months, 2nd nursed clean for 14 months.

I never heard the pumping concept but that makes sense for me cause I pumped more with my first then with my second, but that just meant that from the pumping I did, my son only got 3-4 bottles a week, and that was more like 5 months and on, I just started my supply from the begining.

the idea of sleeping through the night or scheduling didnt harm me at all. my kids were both on scheduels by the age of 3 months, and I had different results. My second son slept 12 hour nights from the time he was 6 weeks old and I nursed clean longer with him. So even within the same person logic doesnt hold

I think you can do what you can to try and prolong nusing clean but its not something to argue over or have controversy, cause I bet you like one fo the postering mothers said, they tried and always get their period at 6 weeks (I think thats what she said)

Hashem_Yaazor

Fri, Jun 05 2009, 11:55 am

guesswho wrote:

From all the sociological things I've read, most cultures had the baby sleeping near the mother, feeding frequently.
No made up business of schedules or timings, forcing baby to sleep through the night, having baby separated from mother...
Most nursing babies will NOT overfeed...they might suckle for comfort, but not suck hard enough for milk. I've seen it.
Our views are backward...we're afraid to nurse too much....when in fact, we're nursing much less frequently than babies used to.

Inspired

Sat, Jun 06 2009, 3:43 pm

amother wrote:

For all you nervous mothers - you can miss a feeding or two a day and still nurse clean! It may not be two years, but if you miss one feeding while you work, but the nurse the rest of the day- nothing will happen!
I didnt nurse clean for two years, but 12-15 months was long enough for me.

Maybe nothing will happen. You can't really predict how a woman's body will react at all. Some women can never miss a feeding and not have LA and some can give pacifiers and introduce solids at 5 months and still have LA. You can't say what will happen.
The only thing you can say is what, according to studies are the factors that lead to LA in many women, what are the best odds way to try to achieve it.

Tamiri

Sat, Jun 06 2009, 4:01 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

Question: I read that "complete nursing" (frequent feedings, no bottles or pacifiers, no solid food, no formula or water) prevents pregnancy for only six months, and that after that you can get pregnant even if you didn't have a period. Is there any truth to that timetable of six months?

No truth. My sister has kids 14 month apart. 14 less 9 months is 5 months, which is when she got pg the second time. #1 was only nursing, no nothing but..... he was sleeping at night. I think all bets are off if the baby sleeps at night.

Inspired

Sat, Jun 06 2009, 4:03 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

You can read the links I posted to studies, etc.

Isramom8

Sat, Jun 06 2009, 4:10 pm

Tamiri wrote:

Isramom8 wrote:

Of course all bets are off if the baby sleeps through the night - that's why I wrote frequent feedings.

Inspired, please don't make me read all that to get this one anwser! Wink

Inspired

Sat, Jun 06 2009, 4:19 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

Tamiri wrote:

Isramom8 wrote:

Of course all bets are off if the baby sleeps through the night - that's why I wrote frequent feedings.

Inspired, please don't make me read all that to get this one anwser! Wink

As I said, the WHO study included 60+ factors.

Quote:

You can achieve higher effectiveness by practicing ecological breastfeeding:

* keeping baby close
* breastfeeding on cue (day and night)
* using breastfeeding to comfort your baby
* breastfeeding in a lying-down position for naps and at night
* using no bottles or pacifiers

If you practice ecological breastfeeding:

* Chance of pregnancy is practically zero during the first three months, less than 2% between 3 and 6 months, and about 6% after 6 months (assuming mom's menstrual periods have not yet returned).
* The average time for the return of menstrual periods is 14.6 months.
* Moms whose cycles return early tend to be infertile for the first few cycles. Moms whose cycles return later are more likely to ovulate before their first period.
Source: Natural Child Spacing and Breastfeeding by Jen O'Quinn

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/nor......html

mimivan

Sat, Jun 06 2009, 5:50 pm

I nursed tahora (sorry, I just find the term nurse clean a bit demeaning, although I understand everyone uses it) for 20 months with my first, but the last two babies, I haven't been able to keep up a full milk supply after 9 months and it pretty much falls off after that.

I can imagine that, in the times of the Gemarah, when people were physically stronger, more connected with the land (esp the Holy Land) and ate more natural, basic food without preservatives, and women didn't work at stressful jobs, it would not have been unusual to nurse without a period for 2 years.

The big difference between my first and the others was I was working (at home, but still) and had more stress, which definitely affects milk supply...but b'h I was able to hold out for even nine months.

Inspired

Sat, Jun 06 2009, 6:05 pm

mimivan wrote:

I nursed tahora (sorry, I just find the term nurse clean a bit demeaning, although I understand everyone uses it)

No, not everyone. Just frum, mostly chassidishe women, and noone I know IRL.
I don't think its as demeaning as it is simply silly. There is a real term- lactation amenorrhea, why can't we use it just like the rest of the world?

mimivan

Sat, Jun 06 2009, 6:16 pm

Inspired wrote:

mimivan wrote:

I nursed tahora (sorry, I just find the term nurse clean a bit demeaning, although I understand everyone uses it)

because it is hard to spell! LOL

amother

Sat, Jun 06 2009, 9:55 pm

I don't think people nurse clean for 2 years unless they are in their late 30's and 40's. And even at that age it only happens because they are less fertile altogether. I think people lie about nursing clean because they don't want to admit they use birth control. I wouldn't let people know what I do/don't do either way. But I HATE when people say they nurse clean for long periods of time. I have a friend who always nurses and between 3 and 4 she has a 4.5 year break. She tells everyone she nurses clean but I don't buy it. Of course I would never confront her about it! I say, why lie? Just dont' say anything!!!