Abusive husbands and abused wives

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yehudis

Sat, Jan 08 2005, 9:27 pm

Since this came up in several threads, here's my question: What are we doing wrong as a society to produce so many abusive husbands and submissive wives who go along with the abuse? And what do we do as parents to prevent our children (both sons and daughters) from being abusive or abused?

amother

Sat, Jan 08 2005, 9:45 pm

That is a great question Yehudis. I was bought up in a home where my father was abusive to my mother not physically but verbally. (which is worse!) My mother always thought it was her fault (even though she was the best wife and mother and did everything for our family including my father). My father's father was an abusive man - so I guess my father was just walking in his footsteps.

I have to say that NOW, girls will not stand for that abuse and if it turns out that there husnand is being a control freek and physically or verbally (calling her names, saying she does nothing etc etc) I hope they will just try to get help (many times it dont work cause it aint so easy for a guy to change just like that) and get out!!!!

BTW my mom finally left- she had to be crazy to stay with an abusive man for so many years thinking all that time it was her fault while my father was just getting worse and worse and worse.

Tefila

Sat, Jan 08 2005, 9:53 pm

Sorry to say, I have seen many hen pecked can't find a better word husbands who are terrified to say no to wives and one told me and my husband once, if he doesn't listen to all she says she will use mikveh as her weapon shock

And the reason he stays married is b/c he loves the kids and doesn't want to risk losing them. Despite other things. Women can also be awful too you know!
And I am unfortunatley not talking about one or two cases!!!

zuncompany

Sat, Jan 08 2005, 11:03 pm

amother... your wrong... women today don't necc. get out even today in age with verbal abuse. I know cause I didn't in my past. I had a wonderful father, but I still didn't even realize what was happening to me. It was only when I met my husband and the way he spoke to me and treated me that I realized what I had been in before.

I think one problem is the push for girls to settle and get married. That was my problem. I felt like I was being told get married already- your 21. Your getting old. This guy is great. this guy is nice... why aren't you engaged already. I almost made a huge mistake! B"H the parents decided I wasn't "good enough" cause I was a BT!!! Otherwise I would prob be married to the wrong guy and still in this situation. I am not the kind of girl though who puts up with much garbage either. I have heard girls who married the guy for that reason though- she was getting older, lots of pressure, the guy seemed "normal, and all her friends have babies already.

freilich- is it not taught to everyone that mikvah can't be used as a weapon Question

Thats sick.

sara

Tefila

Sat, Jan 08 2005, 11:15 pm

Yes zun, but unfortunatley not everyone listens just as men are taught certain things in chosson class too, and do all listen? Sad

zuncompany

Sat, Jan 08 2005, 11:21 pm

very very true

ForeverYoung
Guest

Sun, Jan 09 2005, 12:21 am

a very sad topick...............

I'm not an expet, but I think that

we have to be great spouses; our kids will emulate us

we have to teach our children self-respect by respecting them; they will be more likely to stand up for their rights

we have to be close with them; they will be more likely to tell us if something's wrong

we have to check the family of the potential in-laws - and observe parents & especially sibblings; usually kids reflect their parents well

(there are numerous stories that after seing how potential in-laws interacted, a shiduch was called off)

we have to daven, daven, daven...................
and learn, learn, learn...............
And hope for the best!

====================================

One of my colledge classmates told me that after the vort her hosson of about 3 hours took her into a privite room & told her that from now & on she'll be his, she will do what he sais, and he will beat her if she doesn't. And that she will not tell anyone, b/c then he'll brake the engagement & badmouth her & she'll never be able to get engaed or married! Exploding anger

B'H, she had enough confidence to walk out of the room & announce that she's breaking the engagement.

avigayil

Sun, Jan 09 2005, 12:36 am

Wow. Forever Young, that is an incredible story.
B'H" that woman had the courage to break it off. Not all women are so courageous.
I agree that there is too much of a push to marry young. Society is so complex and we are so inundated with different ideas that generations past did not deal with.
I feel now that frum society is dealing with the issue of domestic abuse. MUCH MORE work needs to be done. Chasson teachers need to stress that physical/mental abuse is not permitted. Rabbis also need to talk more about it...from modern, yeshivish, sephardic, and chassish circles to help change things.

yehudis

Sun, Jan 09 2005, 1:12 am

FY -- what a scary story! And freilich, that story about the abused man is so sad! So what are we doing wrong?

I guess part of the reason why people stay in abusive marriages is because they are afraid to lose the children, as freilich said. The courts are very biased, and the abusive spouse often wins the battle.

gryp

Sun, Jan 09 2005, 7:33 am

FY- he was probably drunk when he did that. serves him right though, I wouldnt want to be near anyone who acts like that when hes drunk.

Rivka

Sun, Jan 09 2005, 8:29 am

It is very hard for women or men to get out of abusive marriages.
First it is the thought of not being able to live without the other, being too dependent. Secondly children who see a father being abusive towards their mother or the other way round usually have a lot of baggage and probably would need to have councelling because it could ruin their relationships.
If it is a girl she will not want to be in the position her mother was in and therefore be too on guard about everything, which isn't healthy and she could never really trust any guy. In a boy's case, if his mother was abusing his father he will have problems respecting women or trusting them and will feel the only way to not be like his father is to be abusive towards his wife. So one vicious circle sadly, only way to get out of it is to see it.
I think for a woman who is constanly verbally abused to pick up and leave her marriage is very rare. Verbal abuse is sometimes more harmful than physical. No one else sees it and it is buried inside. Quite often the husband will tell her she's stupid, she doesn't know anything and her opinions mean nothing, this is just the begining and it paves the way to anything else and worse.
What we are doing wrong is we do not know who these people are because they will not tell anyone let alone admit it to themselves, so if they cannot see it how can you help them?
Men being abused by their wives and the justice system is also very sad, over here there is a fathers for justice group, which is made up of men who are divorced and can't see their kids even if their wives don't care much for them because their wife made up that he hit her and the courts don't look into it and ban him from seeing his kids.
Also there are now shelters for abused men, just like shelters for women who are abused. Men are less likely to tell anyone they are being abused do to their ego.

AweSumThenSum

Mon, Jan 10 2005, 4:04 pm

yehudis, on the contrary, I'd like to differ w/ u. I think there is actually less abuse in today's marriages than there were in my parent/grandparents generation's marriages. today's youth (loosely defined as those born post 1970) duznt put up w/ as much abuse or adversity in a marriage as the previous generations did. our youth is much more apt to jump for a divorce, sometimes justified, sometimes w/o even attempting to work things out. u may feel that abuse is more rampant because it's become a topic that's being discussed and aired. years ago abuse was a taboo subject, to be borne in silence by those afflicted/affected.

Rivka

Mon, Jan 10 2005, 4:31 pm

maybe so Awsum, but we are not talking about those who have recently been married ie this generation, I think there is still the above generation being abused. And even today's youth still have those who are emotionally weak and don't see what is happening to them.

Rochel Leah

Tue, Jan 11 2005, 10:47 am

It is really sad, I know of a couple who the wife thinks her husband is lazy nad doesnt have a proper job and doesnt learn with the kids, so hse hasnt gone to the mikvah in five years. I dont know why he hasnt left her. the kids are realy gonna suffer...

Rivka

Tue, Jan 11 2005, 4:13 pm

Oh my, he should divorce her, I think he has to doesn't he?
Isn't that a case for divorce? Or someone should speak to the wife and ask her why she is married??

proudmom

Tue, Jan 11 2005, 5:20 pm

I know someone that she didnt go to the mikvah for years because she was upset at her husband

AweSumThenSum

Tue, Jan 11 2005, 8:21 pm

what about situations where the husband doesnt want the wife to go because he is upset w/ her? I know of one such case where the woman goes anyway, and it's up to the husband to have the aveyrah.
I think it's become all too common to use mikvah as a control tool in a marriage.

ForeverYoung
Guest

Tue, Jan 11 2005, 9:29 pm

both actions are absolutely asur

Rivka

Thu, Jan 13 2005, 2:38 pm

I don't get this mikvah thing. Why? If you don't get along and you don't go to mikvah for ages why be married? For the kids? uuh no, the kids are suffering more when the parents are married, but not even able to pass things or touch each other and are constantly bickering. There is no marriage and it is better to get divorced. If you don't want a divorce then sort yourself out and figure out what the problem is, talk to each other and work on getting along. I know how it feels to be annoyed at your husband and think I wish I didn't go to the mikvah, but you can't anyway have relations when you are in a bad mood with each other, so are these marriages just based on lust?

Tefila

Thu, Jan 13 2005, 3:02 pm

deleted was off topic totaly Rolling Eyes

Last edited by Tefila on Mon, Jun 06 2005, 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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