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I need info on these yeshivos. Very important.
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GAMZu




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 2:12 pm
My 5 year old is not thriving in his current cheider. He simply hates it. He is being bullied and no one does a blessed thing. There is zero to no supervision on the buses and in the classrooms. I am looking to switch. I'm considering Krasne and Chasan Sofer.
Does anyone have any info about these schools? How are they run?

1>How is the bus dismissal done?
This cheider's "system" is to call out "Red bus!" and the 4 year olds go running out into the street all alone. They wait outside without any supervision, and when their bus arrives, they run towards it while it's still moving. Then they run on and off the bus for 15 minutes until the monitor comes. The big kids abuse the little ones during that time.

2>Do they play outside? In a yard or park?
My son's class goes to the park and the Rebbes ignore them the entire time. I don't expect them to play with the boys, but my 3 y.o. is in his own world sometimes and just wanders off. Even in my care, he sometimes goes off to the ball courts where the non jewish teens play and it's SO scary.

3>How often does the Rebbe leave the class and for how long?
My son's Rebbe goes to the main building 1.5 blocks away very often. He also leaves the kids alone while he tests the students one by one in his office room and that can take up to an hour.

4>How free are the kids to leave the class during recess?
In all my years of schooling and then teaching, kids were not allowed to leave the class during recess at all in elementary school. In this cheider, the kids are ALWAYS in the hallway with no Rebbe in sight. They also play with the front door, pushing each other out and locking it.

5>How do they handle pickup?
Many times I came to get my son and couldn't find the Rebbe, so I just took him and left. Not that anyone cared that there was one child missing. It's not like they noticed.
Also, a few times my mother picked up my son and wasn't even once asked who she was. I would expect a phone call from the Rebbe verifying that I know someone else is picking up my kid!

Thank you all for reading! I hope some of you can help me decide what to do with my sons next year.
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bubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 2:50 pm
I don't know anything much about the Yeshivas you asked about, but I can't believe what you write about where he is now! shock shock shock

What I suggest you do is go and look @ CS & Krasne & speak to the principals, look at the classrooms, call the Rebbes & discuss policies. If you know any parents from these schools call them too. Never mind taking your son out from his current cheder, the place should be shut down!
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JC




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 3:33 pm
If I found out about these things I would pull him out THEN figure out where to send him. The situation sounds horrible!

I would also just drop by the schools during p/u and dropoff to spy on them, also would do the same for recess.
I would also drop by unexpected to just see the teachers in action. Any school that has a problem with that will not be educating my children.
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GAMZu




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 4:03 pm
Well, it's summer now so I can't really see IRL how it's run. And I want to switch NOW. For the upcoming year. So I won't have a chance to "spy" but I wish I did it before.
Also, these places are full and don't take so easily, so they won't necessarily tolerate the attitude of "I have to see if you're good enough for me." You basically get in if they decide they can take you, not if you decide if it's good enough. So they're not out to impress.

How would I go about finding parents of students in these schools? If anyone knows a mother who sends her kids to Krasna or Chasam Sofer, I'd love it if you can PM me and I'll give you my contact info.
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goodluck




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 4:05 pm
you sound pretty upset....did something in particular happen today?

I know a melamed in Krasna and he's very devoted.

I have a friend who sends younger kids to krasna and is very happy.

I also know someone who lives across from cs and when I visit I'm very impressed by what I see.
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bubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 4:11 pm
Gamzu, if your derech is more flexible, maybe there are other good Chedarim where the staff is caring & responsible. Are you only able to send your son to either of these? I don't know if you want a Lubavitch cheder, there is one in BP that is outstanding, but I'm sure there are many great places.

This is really a good topic for the Amother Detective Agency...find Gamzu a great & caring school! By the way, you can still take a tour even if school is not in session. You can get a feel of the place just by looking at the facilities & toys etc.
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GAMZu




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 4:14 pm
goodluck wrote:
you sound pretty upset....did something in particular happen today?

I know a melamed in Krasna and he's very devoted.

I have a friend who sends younger kids to krasna and is very happy.

I also know someone who lives across from cs and when I visit I'm very impressed by what I see.
Nothing today. It's been building up, and we haven't switched because my husband was adamant that our boys go there. But with the new year looming on the front and the dread I feel about sending my son back... and my son's scared face when I mention cheider to him in preparation to his return in 4 weeks...
All that led me to find out about other option, because there's no way he's going back there.

DH still thinks that if I make a list (similar to the one above... there's a LOT more) and give it to the menahel, they will change things. Pffft. Yes, they will go out and hire new Rebbes and will overhaul their bus system because I give them a list of complaints.
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GAMZu




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 4:18 pm
The facilities and toys are excellent in our cheider. It's a little old and worn, but nothing about the building or classrooms would hint to what goes on.

I am open to more schools, but these are two that are near me that seem to be better than the current one. I'd like something that is walkable distance and chasidish.

Where is the Lubavitch cheider in BP?
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bubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 4:30 pm
If you call Heichel Menachem, they will know. 633 1076. I think the school is 16th in the low #, but I could be wrong.
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gryp




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 5:37 pm
OMG Gamzu. I wouldn't stand for any of that for a single day. No way does that happen in my boys' yeshiva. That sounds more like a zoo than a school. shock
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 8:05 pm
bubby wrote:
If you call Heichel Menachem, they will know. 633 1076. I think the school is 16th in the low #, but I could be wrong.

Are you referring to Gan Yisroel?
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 8:11 pm
im with ra-mom. now youre makin me nervous about sending my son to school next year IYH! anyone with a positive brooklyn yeshiva experience that can post? thanks.
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bubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 9:00 pm
I can't remember the name of the school, but the main teacher/Principal taught MY boys & she is incredible...Dini Rapoport. I wish she was teaching back in CH, I would push my DD to send DGS's to her. There are very few gifted teachers around & she's one.
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GAMZu




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 9:01 pm
gold21 wrote:
im with ra-mom. now youre makin me nervous about sending my son to school next year IYH! anyone with a positive brooklyn yeshiva experience that can post? thanks.
Most chasidishe chadorim are a little wild and hefker to a point. Some more than others. You'd never get "Yeled V'Yalda" type of curriculum or supervision there.
Litvishe places like Chaim Berlin are much more organized and safe for children.
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ShakleeMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 9:04 pm
home school him. you'll never be happy!
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goodluck




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 9:08 pm
I sent 3 boys to a chasidishe cheder in boro park. boys tend to be wild, but my boys were always happy. when they went to playgroup and had a morah they were not so happy. Once they had a rebbe and boys......they brightened up. they started to talk and mature. I find that until then they acted very babyish.
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Reality




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 9:14 pm
When I was single I lived down the block from Krasne. They played in the street (closing it off for traffic of course). They seemed very wild & no teachers around!
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GAMZu




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2009, 9:20 pm
I see the Krasna kids during recess. Their Rebbes stand on the sidewalk. It's the older kids who have recess there. Younger children play in the yard (from what I've seen.)
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sarahd




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 06 2009, 6:39 am
What about Yagdil Torah? The kids I used to see at recess seemed reasonably well behaved and the rebbeim were usually around.
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momomany




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 06 2009, 7:28 am
Krasna & CS have VERY different clientele & certainly a VERY different secular curriculum. For example, the children in Krasna will most likely speak yiddish among each other & in CS, most children will come from primarily english speaking homes. Is the makeup of the parent body of your child's school a factor for you & your dh?


Quote:
Most chasidishe chadorim are a little wild and hefker to a point. Some more than others. You'd never get "Yeled V'Yalda" type of curriculum or supervision there.
Litvishe places like Chaim Berlin are much more organized and safe for children


My children have gone through the chasidish system in 3 different BP cheders. I did not find them wilder & more hefker than my friends' experiences in more litvish, yeshivish and Flatbush schools. The transition from a morah in kindergarten to a rebbe at age 5, was always difficult (for me) because as a mother, I appreciated a "woman's touch" in the classroom. My boys though did very well & were thrilled to have a real, "grownup" rebbe "like a bochur". They all thrived & I learned to look away from sticky hands, dirty knees & the occasional over the top, yet natural, "boy" antics.
Now that 1 of my sons is already 19 & 2 others are already in HS, I am even more grateful for the chinuch they received during their early days in chasidish cheders. The do not attend a strictly chasidish high school, yet the warm, mentshlich chinuch they received as children is reflected in their everyday behavior & makes me proud. The fact that their early school years were spent in a more sheltered environment has helped make them the wonderful, aidel people they are today.
I think a classroom of 6 year old boys, when observed during recess will appear the same in chadorim & schools across the board. Boys are wired differently then girls & their behavior is more......active (ok, wild). The end result of a chasidish education though, does USUALLY not turn out any more juvenile delinquents then litvish schools though LOL.
Some foood for thought - Public schools have lots of supervision, an organized curriculum, trained,certified teachers, an exact ratio of students to teachers etc. Fast forward to the products they are turning out!!! Our chasidish cheders are doing many things right. My intention is not to undermine your valid concerns, (I have not even addressed most of them), just to point out that unless we homeschool, there is no perfection anywhere & you may have to decide what is MOST important for you in your childs school & look away from the rest.
Good lUck!
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