English Names | Imamother

cassandra

Tue, Aug 11 2009, 1:59 pm

We do not give our kids English names since both my husband and I have English names (but were called by our Hebrew names) and it's kind of annoying in a practical sense, and especially when the person sitting next to you in grad school or in the office over is named Parvati or Sung. You kinda feel like "what's the point?" We did make a point to give our children names that are easily pronounceable for the most part.

3/4 kids are named after people with English names, and if we had given English names I probably would have used them (for at least two) because they are names that I like anyway, and also how I knew them, but again, it's moot for us.

ClaRivka

Tue, Aug 11 2009, 2:05 pm

This is such a controversial topic. Do you name your child only hebrew names bc thats one of the things that makes us unique and one of the things we kept in Mitzrayim and throughout the ages? Or should we give our children secular names just in case there should b another war and Chas vshalom our kids will need to have secular names and itll b easier to remember if they actually have them...
This is my thinking. My husband wants only hebrew or yiddish names and im not sure where I stand yet..got time to think abt it tho.
Good luck making a decision.

Ruchel

Tue, Aug 11 2009, 2:08 pm

Quote:

Do you give your children Engish names? Why or Why not?

No, because I don't feel like it. Or more precisely, my dd has secular names, but in 4th and 5th position and not used.

Quote:

If you name after someone with an English name do you give that name?

Only if I don't have the Jewish name or the person didn't have a Jewish name (like many women in some circles).

In my circles secular names are the norm. They are even more common in some frum circles - you will never hear the Jewish name of the chief rabbi for example!!

I choose not to use one for my dd because I felt like using the Jewish name.

I don't think it's controversial, I think it's cultural. Secular names have been in use since ancient times.

tovasmom

Tue, Aug 11 2009, 2:32 pm

My oldest dd was born on shabbat afternoon, and her naming was on Monday thereafter. We took great pains to explain to my MIL (not frum) that we do not call the baby by name before the naming. After the naming -- she was there but did not follow -- MIL asked DH, Oh, what's the baby's name? and dh told her the name. Her response was, Yes, but what's the baby's REAL name. DH tried to explain to her that this WAS the baby's real name, but the explanation fell on deaf ears. As there are many more important things to fight with MIL about, we decided to take the path of least resistance and give our kids english names. I have advised all of my kids that I will not be insulted if at the time they reach majority, they decide they wish to drop their english names and have them legally changed. They do not use their english names in their day to day life.

A couple of years ago, we took a car trip to Niagra Falls and went to cross the border into Canada. I had all the kids birth certificates with us to show to border patrol. About 5 miles from the border we made sure to test the kids to make sure they knew their english names -- nothing fishier at a border crossing than kids being asked their names and not knowing!

DH and I both have english names that we only use in the business world and not in real life, but some of the non-frum relatives still insist on calling dh by his english name.

DovDov

Tue, Aug 11 2009, 3:37 pm

I am a strong believer that the birth certificate should have a Jewish name, but I also believe it should be pronounceable. So my first son's name was something like (not those names, but equally pronounceably to Americans) Menachem Yerachmiel Yosef, and we only put the last name on the birth certificate because it was the only one an American could be reasonably expected to pronounce correctly.

I have a bee in my bonnet about not naming after people who weren't religious, which is a little problem because my father in law is a ba'al teshuva and we're the only frum grandchildren to carry on his parents' names. One thing to do is use the same hebrew name but call the child after the tzadik who had the name first; another option (probably ot be used together) is to give the child the English name the parent went by. Since for both o fhis parents the "English" name was really just an anglicized Jewish name (though ironically not the same as the actual Jewish name -- I.e. Rivka with English name Rachel), I don't mind as much.

I have a conservative Jewish friend named Rachel Sara who told me in all seriousness that her "Hebrew" name was Shayna Gittel. Um no, that might be her JEWISH name, but her only HEBREW name is Rachel Sara.

Peanut2

Tue, Aug 11 2009, 5:10 pm

I worked at a non-Ortho Jewish school and there was a girl named Eliana whose Hebrew name is Elisheva, and a boy named Aaron whose Hebrew name was something like Zusha Berel Shmerel (or some other yiddish name I would never hear in my modern ortho community.)

ora_43

Tue, Aug 11 2009, 5:26 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Drives me crazy when people say "Hebrew" for Jewish.

In English, "Hebrew" used to mean what "Jewish" now means.

It's part of Christian lingo from the Bible -- "Ivri," Hebrew, was the word for "Jewish" back when the word Yehudi/Jewish meant specifically "of the tribe of Judah," before the tribes were split.

So while it's funny to hear people calling names like Shaina or Berel or whatever "my Hebrew name," it's only inaccurate according to our modern use of those terms. It was accurate as recently as last century AFAIK.

Rodent

Tue, Aug 11 2009, 7:27 pm

No, they do not have separate English names, their Hebrew names are their legal names also. That is all they are known by, their only REAL name. I converted and my husband is BT so we have secular names also. He never uses his in any circle except drs and official sort of people, if someone calls and asks for his legal name it usually gives a rough idea of what it's about! I use my Hebrew name with my husband and in Jewish circles and my legal name for everything else. I've gotten used to it and since I use both that's fine. For my husband though, he may as well not have the different legal name.

However, when each of our children has been born, we have actually chosen more anglicised names for them. They will not be told about them. They are there for if one day they decide that they do not want such an ethnic sounding name and are going to change them, we can tell them that we did choose some and let them know. I know that sounds weird but I know that when I converted it would have meant a lot more to me if my mother had said "we have a Hebrew name we chose for you" rather than just choosing something myself (as it was, I asked a mentor to name me). I doubt Immanuel will ever be in this situation, most use the English pronunciation anyway (we don't) so it's not so weird. The others are more likely to have these sort of thoughts at some point so we wanted to be prepared.

--Rodent

soldat

Tue, Aug 11 2009, 7:37 pm

cassandra wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

Drives me crazy when people say "Hebrew" for Jewish.

why? All of my kids names are Hebrew.

but many names are Jewish and not Hebrew
in our school we are very careful to say
JEWISH name and JEWISH birthday

amother

Tue, Aug 11 2009, 9:05 pm

My daughter has a name that is pronouncable in Hebrew and English, but we were naming her middle name for dh's grandmother, so we gave her the Hebrew name we liked and the English middle name for the grandmother -- made everyone happy b/c the grandmother never had a Hebrew name.

My sons both go by their Hebrew names, but have English names on their insurance forms, birth certificates, etc. They call them their "doctor's office names." In this day and age, at least where I live, it's easier to have it if they need it. No one calls them by those names, though. One of them has names that are direct cognates -- like Yonason Dovid being Jonathon David, the other one was a little trickier, but we came up with similar sounding names.

For me, I'm a BT and known by my bizarro English name that my mother made up. I still dislike my Hebrew name, or I'd have changed to it a long time ago. I've thought about switching to my Hebrew middle name, which I like (and used in High School), but since I"ve been in this community for 10 years, it'd seem weird.

DH is also a BT and uses his English first name b/c that's what he's always been.

[using Hebrew for Jewish b/c that's how I've always referred to it]

cassandra

Tue, Aug 11 2009, 9:08 pm

soldat wrote:

cassandra wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

Drives me crazy when people say "Hebrew" for Jewish.

why? All of my kids names are Hebrew.

but many names are Jewish and not Hebrew
in our school we are very careful to say
JEWISH name and JEWISH birthday

yes, but it only makes sense to be bothered by it if it's inaccurate, which most of the time it isn't, Ora's point about "Hebrews" long being synonymous with "Jews" notwithstanding.

Mommish

Tue, Aug 11 2009, 9:34 pm

My first 2 have names that are just about the same in Hebrew and in English. The 3rd has a "chet" and I thought about putting the English name of the relative she was named after on the birth cert, but didn't. Now I wish I had because it would be much easier in situations like the doctor's office, etc. I think in the future I will try to give either a name that works in both Hebrew and English or a separate English name. I might even change dd's birth cert at some point if its not too complicated.

Seraph

Wed, Aug 12 2009, 12:59 am

We didnt give our son an official English name, but Uriel is the same in both Hebrew and English, its just generally pronounced Yuriel in english and Ooriel in hebrew.
We were contemplating giving an official english name, because my husband's grandfather was not jewish and named "George Robert" and if we'd want to name after him, it would need to be english... But having a kid with the name George or Robert just didnt go...
Anyhow, all his certification is in hebrew as we live in Israel. But if we lived in the US, theres a good chance his birth certificate would have said Robert Seraphson.

Marion

Wed, Aug 12 2009, 1:09 am

Yes, it's mostly an irrlevant question in Israel. That said, DS#1 is named after my grandfather, who was Emmanuel in "English" too, and I know lots of North American "Tzvi"s and "Shai"s who are that way in "English" too. So far even the Canadian officials haven't had any trouble.

chanchy123

Wed, Aug 12 2009, 4:45 am

Peanut2 wrote:

I've seen a year book form some NY MO highschool where at least two of the girls had English names like Avital or Talya and Hebrew names such as Gittel or even Rivka. I tried to explain to the friend who showed me the year book what was so funny but she didn't get.
B"H I lived in Israel my whole life and we never had to deal with such galut problems.

Tamiri

Wed, Aug 12 2009, 4:58 am

My parents gave me an English name, but never used it - it was for the birth certificate only. My sister has a name which goes both English and Hebrew - it's a Jewish name. By the time my brother came along, he got one name only: the Hebrew one. This is all 40+ years ago. Come to think of it, giving an "English" name may have been a knee-jerk reaction for the immigrants. I doubt that in the shtetl people had Polish or German names. I think that there is probably a correlation between the desire to intigrate into the general society and the giving of secular names. Currently, there is a strong Jewish identification ingrained in us so there should not be a need for secular names.
For my children, we gave only Hebrew names even to those born in the U.S. Their names are meaningful and as Cassandra wrote, if people can give the name of their origin (or made-up names like Shawandette and LeGroover etc.), then what is wrong with Hebrew names? That's the only important name in Jewish life anyway.