A CHILD MOLESTOR AMONGST US

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Children's Health

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother

Tue, Sep 15 2009, 11:55 am

Either call the police or call Henna White at the Brooklyn DA's office. She is a frum woman. She will help you.

sarahd

Tue, Sep 15 2009, 1:53 pm

Thank you, Ora, for a bit of level-headed common sense.

smilingmom

Tue, Sep 15 2009, 6:21 pm

ora_43 wrote:

I don't understand how what he said was even bad. He doesn't know whether this guy is violating parole or not, he referred you to someone who can help. So nu, call the lawyer and find out.

According to the OP, (and I have no reason to doubt her) Rav Cohen said...
He did not understand why he should be involved
You don't see what is wrong with a Rav questioning why he should be involved in a case of possible child endangerment??
he told me to call ohel and speak to some lawyer there.
I don't go to the bank to discuss pharmaceuticals and I don't expect to go to a lawyer to discuss Halachic or community affairs.

amother

Tue, Sep 15 2009, 7:14 pm

As horriable as it is criminals have rights. WHo said that this guy was violating his rights? to my understanding all rabbi Cohen asked you to do is find out if he was doing something leagally wrong and then he would know how to guide you with the halacha aspect. There are plenty of molestors amoungst us, ones that dont have their pictures plastered on the internet. you got to teach your kids to be aware of these crazies and when taking them to a park, pizaa store or anywhere else keep a very strong watchful eye on them!

smilingmom

Tue, Sep 15 2009, 7:34 pm

amother wrote:

Criminals do have rights, but so do we. The reason for the relations offender registry, is that the public can be informed of these predators names and pictures, along with a details of the conviction and parole conditions.
When will you guys get it????
The OP was not asking Rav Cohen a legal question, (I am not sure if he is even a lawyer) The question and answer would be the same regardless of the perverts legal status. HOW DO WE PROTECT OUR CHILDREN???
It is a question pertaining to the tzibur and as such should be dealt with by a Rav. If Rav Cohen does not want to deal with it, I hope someone else does.

bubby

Tue, Sep 15 2009, 10:36 pm

Does anyone know of a Posek who is knowledgeable in this kind of thing? I know when I had an issue I spoke to Dr. David Pelcovitz & he told me if I went to Rav Cohen he would tell me to report it. It is very easy to have a knee-jerk reaction, especially as our first instinct is always to protect the children & we think by reporting we are doing that. In this case, I agree with OP, but I know in the situation I had it wasn't as clear cut. In the end, we have to get Halachic guidance, if only so we can sleep at night & not be afraid we have ruined someone's life when there may have been an alternative. That's why we turn to rabbonim. The problem arises when we a) can't find a Rav qualified in the issue or b) there is one but he won't "get involved."

amother

Tue, Sep 15 2009, 10:59 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Nice that everyone is so willing to bash on Rabbi Cohen based on what "amother" says. It's not like he's spent way more time and effort dealing with abuse issues than any of us, or anything, that he should be given the benefit of the doubt Confused

.

I don't understand how what he said was even bad. He doesn't know whether this guy is violating parole or not, he referred you to someone who can help. So nu, call the lawyer and find out.

It's not a question of whether or not Rabbi Cohen or anyone else is "happy for this guy to walk the streets." The guy is allowed to walk the streets. He's done his jail time. If you don't like that, so feel free to lobby for the death penalty for child molesters, but in the meantime there might not be anything anyone can do.

Ora.

Thank you so much yet again for injecting sense into this discussion.
Just for the record, my son was severely molested, and I have as much reason to hate child molesters as anyone.
but Ora's backing of Rav Cohen is sound. We might believe these people are sub-human, but according to the law, they walk if they have served their time. They just need to be watched.
What happened to my son would have earned the perpetrators the death penalty if it had happened in the time of the Beis Hamikdash (incredibly, there were two witnesses and a warning and it happened anyway!) death by stoning...
but the Beis Hamikdash is not standing yet (we need to do everything in our power to make sure that it will be standing ASAP for many reasons) and until then, this world is imperfect. But justice of the golus is what we have for now.

BTW I am kind of tired of all this Rav bashing...iy'h when there is finally some closure on this, I am willing to tell my story anonymously here and other places, (bli neder) about how WONDERFUL the Rabbonim have been and how the government authorities have been Keystone cops (however, if there will be closure, I will also owe gratitude to them)...
I am chareidi and NOT ONE POSEK, RABBI, REBBETZIN told me "think of their families, think of their shidduchim someday, think of the good name of (our derech)...take it to a beis din and not the police."

The first posek we called said it was a case of a din rodeph and anything should be done to stop them.
Another Rav on the Beis din says it is a "chaval" if the police won't do anything.

So the times are a changin' ladies...don't be so quick to assume the worst about rabbonim...those who aren't awake yet to this are waking up...and in some cases, it is our job to wake them up...

bubby

Tue, Sep 15 2009, 11:14 pm

amother wrote:

ora_43 wrote:

Ora.

I may have missed something, but I don't think anyone is bashing Rabbonim...far from it, we all want & need their guidance & Psakim (?) But the area of abuse is complex & very few are comfortable with it. OP & I have been PMing. She is very sensible & I'm sure she explained things to Rav Cohen well. If I would have given over the exact same facts you can be sure his answer wouldn't be identical. A good Rav answers what is SAID, not what we want to convey, & we all say things with more or less emphasis & importance. But for some reason his answer seems to be vague & if I were OP I too would have been very upset as it does on the face of it seem like avoidance. Maybe, OP, you can go back to him & ask again, perhaps more specifically: Can I go to the police, the DA, Probation Service or any secular authorities? Can I tell his boss his history? Can I "advertise" what this man was convicted of? etc.

Last amother, it is very encouraging that you got so much support from your Rav & Rebbeitzin. Sadly, that's not always the case, not because they don't want to touch the topic, but probably because most Rabbonim are just not equipped to deal with this. Just like there are Rabbonim who are experts in Mikvah, TH, Kashrus etc, we need more Rabbonim to be trained in this delicate & tragic area.

amother

Tue, Sep 15 2009, 11:37 pm

I'm the amother above..

I think I overstated the "rav bashing" business...I wasn't thinking of the OP...just in general...
and I understand not all Rabbonim are created equal on this issue and I should say baruch hashem for our rabbonim rather than say that Rabbis across the board would have behaved the same way.

there is nothing wrong with calling a rav again and giving him more details and clarifying the issue...while I don't believe in psak shopping, I don't necessarily take what a Rav says the first time as set in stone, but it is okay to call him again and discuss it with him with all the details, ramifications (or have dh do it)..

ora_43

Wed, Sep 16 2009, 4:34 am

Bubby - I don't doubt that OP is sensible. But I find it highly disturbing that someone can come on here and with one anonymous post, ruin a rabbi's reputation. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I think if you're going to say something as serious as that a rabbi known for his work with abuse cases doesn't care enough about abuse, you should say it under your name (and I don't mean screen name). Even if it's true.

ora_43

Wed, Sep 16 2009, 4:36 am

And this is what I mean by "bashing":

Quote:

I HATE it when rabonim play politics.

Quote:

That is so sick, that a rabbi of Rav Cohens stature would be so blase.

Quote:

I'm shocked & disappointed that Rav Cohen took this position of what seems to me to be "no position."

ora_43

Wed, Sep 16 2009, 5:19 am

smilingmom wrote:

According to the OP, (and I have no reason to doubt her) Rav Cohen said...

What reason do you have to doubt Rav Cohen's commitment or his dedication to helping the tzibur?

Quote:

He did not understand why he should be involved
You don't see what is wrong with a Rav questioning why he should be involved in a case of possible child endangerment??

If I were to call my rav and tell him I'm having contractions, he would tell me to get off the phone with him and call a doctor. That doesn't mean a rav is questioning why he should be involved in a case of pikuach nefesh - it means he's giving me the resources I need to get the help I need.

The OP has been given the resources to call an expert and figure out if she has any legal grounds to complain to police or the man's parole officer. What more do you want?

I'm not sure how "child endangerment" got into this. We're not talking about a situation where a child molester is opening a daycare center, or attempting to adopt a child. He was working near children in a public area with several adults present. That's legal. There might be a legal issue because this specific job was at a playground, but as a general rule, while molesters aren't allowed to work with kids, they are allowed to come into contact with kids while at work.

Quote:

he told me to call ohel and speak to some lawyer there.
I don't go to the bank to discuss pharmaceuticals and I don't expect to go to a lawyer to discuss Halachic or community affairs.

So don't call a rabbi who specializes in getting molesters who have not yet been convicted off the street to ask what your options are regarding someone who's served his jail time.

Quote:

When will you guys get it????
The OP was not asking Rav Cohen a legal question, (I am not sure if he is even a lawyer) The question and answer would be the same regardless of the perverts legal status. HOW DO WE PROTECT OUR CHILDREN???

There's no magic answer to that. Use common sense, don't leave your kids alone with the repairman, don't leave them alone at the playground, teach them not to go with strangers - etc.

OP might not have been asking a legal question, but the legal aspect is important. What the next step should be depends on whether this guy is violating his parole or if he's just creepy. You have a lot more options with the former than you do with the latter.

I really don't get what special answer you want a rabbi to have to this issue (in general). How can a rabbi punish a molester beyond what criminal law calls for? And why do you think this is a special, dangerous case - what did you think was happening to molesters after they served their time? Do you think other molesters who've served time aren't out there working, being invited into people's homes, seeing kids at the mall and grocery store, having their own children... ?

amother

Wed, Sep 16 2009, 6:23 pm

Hi, I am the original poster who started this thread.

It is amazing how a posting can go out of control and turn into a bashing game.

Rabbi Cohen did nothing wrong, he simply did not understand what I wanted from him and why I called him in the first place. What he did advise was that he did not know if there was anything wrong with this level 2 offender being in a childrens playground and I should contact a named lawyer at ohel to enquire by her. He did call me back promptly and he DID give me the lawyers phone number.

I called the lawyer at Ohel yesterday, left a message and did not receive a return phone call, the same thing today. So I am at a dead end.

Did Rabbi Cohen do anything wrong - absolutely not! this is just not his forte though many people on this board assumed that he was the direct approach for this kind of situation. My gut feeling tells me that Dov Hikind may have been more suitable to approach in the first place and I WILL call him tomorrow.

amother

Wed, Sep 16 2009, 6:23 pm

smilingmom

Wed, Sep 16 2009, 6:52 pm

Ora, I apologize if I misspoke.
I have never heard of Rav Cohen before this thread, not am I well versed in the Halacha involved in se*ual abuse. I was merely reacting to the amother's recitation of her conversation with Rav Cohen, who was touted as an expert on this forum. I did not realize as you stated that his expertise is "in getting molesters who have not yet been convicted off the street"

I do not doubt his dedication to Klal Yisrael, nor his expertise, but his seemingly blase attitude toward amothers concern left me in shock.

As to his referral, you are right that the role of a Rav is to give referrals,. I am not sure where you live, but in NYC, lawyers bill at $250 to $350 an hour. I would not expect amother to shell out that money for legal advice as to what she should do in this circumstance.

Amother relayed an incidence that happened in an indoor playground, and I and others gave their advice. Sorry if I offended you.

ROFL

Wed, Sep 16 2009, 8:59 pm

I think dov hikind is the way to go in this case. As a politcian he will look into what the status is of this offender. He also has the resources to make a big fuss with the right people.

amother

Fri, Jan 20 2012, 2:46 pm

AMAZING!!! This entire post was about DAVID ZIMMER the guy arrested last week - the registered relations offender -how do I know because I was the original poster.

Now looking back I called Rabbi Cohen he enquired what I wanted from him
I called Dov Hikind who in turn called the DA's office who said there is nothing they can do
I left TWO messages with OHEL nobody called me back

Now lets wait and see what will come out from the woodwork

smilingmom

Fri, Jan 20 2012, 3:19 pm

David Zimmer has been on nts s-x offender registry for years.
There are many frum Jews on their. You should check out by zip codes and show your children the pictures.

amother

Fri, Jan 20 2012, 4:02 pm

A few days or weeks ago (can't remember) vosizneias or ywn had an article about david zimmer, a s-x offender. When looking at the picture, I realized he was the one who had changed the locks on our doors a few weeks ago. Scary. He works for a locksmith, his father, and was with him at the time they changed the locks.

amother

Sat, Jan 21 2012, 7:16 am

If anyone wants to know about relations offenders living in their area and what they havedone go to

www.adkanenough.com

That is a site that is for survivors of abuse, and alerts for people where a molester is lurking, very informative, and very very very sad.

One of the letters written by a survivor, I wrote..

Page 5 of 6

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next