anyone know this story and can help fill in details?

mltjm

Thu, Oct 22 2009, 6:47 pm

It's one of those freak-you-out-and-make-you-want-to-be-a-better-person type of stories.

I can't remember all the details but it goes something like this:
A couple gives birth to a baby boy, the woman dies during the birth, the father raises his son alone, they may or may not be frum and the son may or may not go off the derech. Either way, the father goes away for a business trip and the kid makes a huuuge party at his house. Either the cops get called and the father gets called, or the father unexpectedly comes home. Ether way, he comes home to find, to his horror, that his son made a huge party in his house. He says get in the car, and they drive to his mother's grave, and his father says- she died giving birth to you and......

....I don't remember the punchline. Can anybody help?

chayitty

Thu, Oct 22 2009, 8:15 pm

as far as my memory lets me go..I rem. it this way...
Mother is giving birth and there are complications so the dr. gives a choice its either you or the baby. the mother chooses to save the baby and tells the father never to tell the boy and she dies...yrs. go by and the boy messes up constantly...somthing major happens and father takes him to his mothers grave and tells him somthing like it was supposed to be you in there...ur mother put ur life infront of hers and she was a good person and ur wasting ur life away...(something to that extent)

Lady Godiva

Thu, Oct 22 2009, 8:17 pm

chayitty wrote:

That's a horrible story. This would not make me want to be a better person. Imagine the boy's guilt when he hears that.

Raizle

Thu, Oct 22 2009, 10:43 pm

marina wrote:

I'm thinking that story would be against halacha, being that she should have chosen herself, al pi din.

So why are we telling this story to people?

I heard this story a number of times and each time I hear it I think the same thing. If it's a Jewish story then it's either made up or they went against halacha

I don't see anything positive about repeating this story and I always have my reservations about even believing these types of stories.

penguin

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 6:37 pm

There was a story in the Calligraphy (story supplement) to Mishpacha Succos edition about two men who went to the Ribnitzer after around 10 childless years. He told them to only way to overcome the decree is if they would bw moser nefesh & give up their life to have a son - but he could give them time to marry off the son. So when the son of the man who agree is sitting shiva, the father's friend who did not take the offer comes to be menachem ovel & tells him the story..only he was not messing up..but your story does remind me of this one...

mltjm

Sun, Oct 25 2009, 7:26 pm

chayitty wrote:

thanks that's the one...the first time I heard it was years ago and I was thinking of using it for something but couldn't remember the details. I didn't end up using it bc of how harsh it was. Thanks for helping me out though!

Butterfly

Wed, Oct 28 2009, 7:23 pm

marina wrote:

I'm thinking that story would be against halacha, being that she should have chosen herself, al pi din.

So why are we telling this story to people?

Raizle wrote:

Ok, just for arguments sake, let us assume that she wasn't aware of the halacha, and made this huge sacrifice, out of the goodness of her heart.. to save the baby's life.

Has she considered the difficult consequences this little boy would have to endure without his MOTHER being there for him from the moment he's born, to nurture him, to love him, to feed him, to raise him, and whatever else that only a MOTHER can give!?!

How about the other members of the family, the husband, children, parents, and etc. who were left traumatized, and most likely, negatively affected in many areas as well? (possibly for life???)

Neh, this story ain't for real.. I think ye better get the facts straight, cuz their must be some sensible/logical factors missing here.

shalhevet

Thu, Oct 29 2009, 5:46 am

I don't know if the story in this thread is for real, but here is a real story:

A woman found out during pregnancy that she had cancer. The doctors told her that she could either be treated, but it would kill/ harm the baby, or she could wait to give birth, but by then it would be too late. She asked a shaila, and was told it was up to her - either way was allowed. She chose to continue the pregnancy and save the baby.

She had a baby girl (she already had a boy of about 4), and a few weeks after the birth, the mother died.

This is definitely 100% true - the 'baby' is now 13 years old and in my dd's class at school. (The father remarried a couple of years ago.)

So don't be so sure what anyone would choose. Or what halacha says.

Atali

Thu, Oct 29 2009, 9:54 am

Butterfly wrote:

marina wrote:

I'm thinking that story would be against halacha, being that she should have chosen herself, al pi din.

So why are we telling this story to people?

Raizle wrote:

Keep in mind that the decision would have been made in the heat of the moment and I could easily imagine a mother who was unaware of the halacha choosing her child's life over hers.

But since it seems they violated halacha I don't see why it is being repeated.

freshie

Thu, Oct 29 2009, 10:00 am

I heard the story like this:
There was a childless couple who went to a Rebbe for a Brocha and the Rebbe said you are not destined to have children but you both merit longlife and you can exchange it for the mother and the child will one day turn bad but will eventually return they both agreed with this.
the father brought up his son who was a special boy and was very proud of him and one time he left town thinking he could trust him and thats when the boys hidden life came ot and he made a party in his house not knowing his father will return earlier than planned and when he saw his father he was shocked the father said nothing just took him silently to his mothers grave and when they arrived he told the son the story I believe the son returned and from then on was good.

Don't quote me but thats what I remember!

DovDov

Thu, Oct 29 2009, 10:07 am

Raizle wrote:

marina wrote:

I'm thinking that story would be against halacha, being that she should have chosen herself, al pi din.

So why are we telling this story to people?

Not sure that's true. It may well have been a "we can save you and lose the child or try to save you both with a greater risk of losing you" situation, in which case it's not at all clear that you have to choose the better chance of saving your life. You are allowed to risk your life to save someone else and if the baby is already in the process of being born he counts as another person for those purposes.

Also, if it's something like the cancer case, where the treatment that would save the mother is either not totally reliable to be successful or even if it is if it involves major trauma to your body (extensive chemo, transplants, etc.) you are allowed to choose not to be treated.