and yaakov kissed her

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And yaakov kissed her

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solo

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 9:46 am

I was looking through this weeks parsha and noticed that when yaakov met rachel, he kissed her.
it made me wonder and I though u may have an explanation.

someoneoutthere

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 10:09 am

Wonder what?

Love My Babes

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 10:15 am

most things in the torah are pretty explicit. we were just never taught it the way it really was.

AlwaysGrateful

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 10:19 am

A couple of explanations I remember from hs:

1. The passuk actually says "vayishak l'rochel" - "he kissed TO rochel." The equivalent of blowing her a kiss or doing the kissing a cheek without touching thing. Whichever one, that was the acceptable way of greeting then.
2. Something about the fact that he was overcome with emotion because he saw his mother or grandmother in her face, or something like that? My memory isn't strong on this one.

Hm, we definitely learned a couple of meforshim on this passuk about that, but I can't remember any more. If you're curious, try looking in some of the basic meforshim to see what they say? If nobody else does, I might have a chance this Shabbos...

AlwaysGrateful

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 10:20 am

P.S. And anyway, this was before the Torah was given...there's a whole discussion about how much the avos kept..and where does being shomer negiah fit in there? I don't know...

sarahd

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 10:27 am

She was about five years old. Additionally, the avos were on a completely different madreiga than we are and their intentions, thoughts and feelings were different than ours might be.

TzenaRena

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 10:30 am

Rochel Imenu, represents the fourth "foot" of the Divine Chariot. Yaakov recognized this extraordinary kedusha . ( I'd have to learn more about it before I could write anything else.)

amother

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 11:52 am

I learned in school that Yaakov kissed Rochel and then he cried - cuz the later doros will misinterpret the kiss. Something like this.

chavamom

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 11:55 am

sarahd wrote:

She was about five years old. Additionally, the avos were on a completely different madreiga than we are and their intentions, thoughts and feelings were different than ours might be.

According to Rashi's shita. There are others that say she was either 12 or 14.

freidasima

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 11:58 am

They were cousins, weren't they?
So he kissed her, after all he had waited a lifetime to see her.
Maybe we should look at it, if we do look at it literally, in the framework of that time and what was considered normal behavior?
Also do we know exactly what is a "kiss" of that time? How can we be sure it is exactly the same (romantic) as today? On the lips? On the forehead? On the hand?

Look remember that this is the same period during when every time someone wanted to swear something it was "sim no yodcho tachas yireichi", meaning literally, touch my loins or rather, grab my bris. There was nothing strange about that either (among men) as a vow, as the bris was a sign of holiness.

Today someone would say that they would be arrested for being a pervert.

Let's not judge things by today.

fiddle

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 12:05 pm

lol I asked this question in 9th grade, and was kicked out of class for being inappropriate.. the teachers these days...cant admit when they dont know an answer rather they feel challenged and get defensive.

louche

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 12:13 pm

fiddle wrote:

Ein kol chadash...teachers "these days" are no different than they were way back when.

Inspired

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 12:17 pm

What is the problem? She wasn't a niddah.

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 12:20 pm

Why am I envisioning a sfas emes that addresses this?
(the letter hey is also coming to my mind, but that means nothing)

This IS something I was taught in school. Frankly, I'm shocked it was taboo in others.

gryp

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 1:03 pm

There are many explanations on this.

This isn't what I was looking for, but it's what found:

Quote:

[11] Then Jacob kissed Rachel…wept aloud (lit., "raised his voice and wept"): Allegorically, Rachel personifies Keneset Yisrael (malchut of Atzilut), the spiritual origin of all Jewish souls. Jacob, the personification of tiferet of Atzilut (the inner dimension of which is rachamim, mercy), wept in order to arouse God's mercy upon the souls that descend into the physical world, exiled from their native, spiritual home—and unite them with God.

Similarly, whenever we feel distanced from God because of our misdeeds, we can arouse God's mercy upon us by first awakening our own mercy on our Divine soul. We experience the resulting unity with God both as a kiss and as an embrace. We experience the "kiss" by articulating and contemplating the holy words of the Torah we study, uniting our speech and thought with God's. We experience the "embrace" by performing the commandments, uniting our power of action with God's.54

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/.....s.htm

freidasima

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 1:25 pm

All the parshanus is lovely but why not just go for the pshat?
He kissed her.
And?
So what?

louche

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 1:45 pm

freidasima wrote:

All the parshanus is lovely but why not just go for the pshat?
He kissed her.
And?
So what?

The Chumash isn't prudish...but we are!

You must remember this:
A kiss is just a kiss,
A sigh is just a sigh...
The fundamental things apply
As time goes by... Music

grin

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 1:45 pm

but what's the problem - weren't they married already? I seem to recall that the deal was that Eliezer was the shaliach kedushin, that Avraham sent with Eliezer a shtar ketuba and he "stood in" for Yakov, no?

mimismile

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 1:49 pm

grin, that was for yitzchak not yaakov.

grin

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 1:56 pm

whoops, I guess my kids are right when they say I'm going senile!

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