and yaakov kissed her

louche

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 2:12 pm

imasinger wrote:

A little off topic, but I remember that Yaakov and Eisav kissed each other in the next parsha, too -- and the midrash doesn't indicate it was exactly an air kiss.

The Midrash says that Eisav actually BIT Yaakov, but I hardly think that yaakov bit rachel.

hadasa

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 2:58 pm

Obviously, before Matan Torah, there was nothing wrong with kissing one's cousin, especially if she is his intended wife. Somehow, I doubt it was an air kiss. Lavan through his kiss checked out if Yaakov had diamonds hidden in his mouth.

And IMO, teachers who can't deal with these questions shouldn't teach.

Tova

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 3:58 pm

OK - got a Chumash out.

VaYetzei 29:11.

Rashi - 1) he cried because he saw in Ruach Hakodesh that he wouldn't be buried with her, 2) he cried because he came empty-handed - as Elifaz ben Esav stole his wealth - unlike when Eliezer came to find Rivka. From here we see that Ani Chashuv K'Meis.

yihyetov

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 4:32 pm

The torah is very complicated like that..there are many many instances where I can "judge" like the story of yehudah and tamar...lot and his daughters...if anyone is the intellectual type you can look up these stories in the meam loez..its got fascinating insights...

imasinger

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 7:02 pm

louche wrote:

imasinger wrote:

A little off topic, but I remember that Yaakov and Eisav kissed each other in the next parsha, too -- and the midrash doesn't indicate it was exactly an air kiss.

The Midrash says that Eisav actually BIT Yaakov, but I hardly think that yaakov bit rachel.

Like I said, not just an air kiss -- clearly physical contact. But following that train of thought might lead to the next popular movie.

trorec1

Tue, Nov 24 2009, 9:15 pm

I happened to hear a drasha on the parsha yerterday this topic was mentioned and explained as either 1) he kissed on the forehead or 2) he kissed on lips as isf to stake claim to her knowing that he was to marry her

Regarding Esav in next weeks Parsha it wa Esav who tryed to KILL Yakov by biting him in the neck but Yakov's neck turned into stone therefore it became a kiss

Temilia

Wed, Nov 25 2009, 12:52 am

I just taught this in Chumash this year.

Pshat Hamikrah is that he kissed her.

Ibn Ezra interprets the lamed in the beginning the word to mean that he kissed her not on the mouth but on the head or shoulder, as was the customary greeting at that time. Ramaban also adds that she was too young for the kiss to be anything inappropriate.
But according to outher Meforshim (rashi included iirc) a kiss means on the mouth.

Now immediately after that, Yaakov cries. Rav SR Hirsh comments that the tears explain the reason for the kiss. He saw a relative of his mother, and this brought him to tears. Remember, Yaakov had been in Yeshiva for the last 14 years and had fled his home prior to that. So seeing a relative moved him to tears. Rochel didn't understand this, and in the next possuk he then explains that he is her relative.

The Midrash adds-(mishnas rabbi Eliezer-perhaps) that there is an opinion that Yaakov cried because he saw the reaction of the people to his kiss. And he cried that they didn't understand that it was not a kiss of frivolity but a kiss of a relative.

There are more interpretations and commentaries but these are some of the main ones. Smile