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Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette
Do you invite yourself?
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chocolate moose




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 25 2009, 11:14 am
My thread was removed on this subject a number of months ago. the gist of it was that a woman in a store accosted me, saying that her son now walks and that she'd like to get out for the Shabbos meals.

That's her side of course; my side is that my apt isn't kidproof, and we really only invite guests for yomtov - we're tired Friday nights and by day we eat in shul. Not to mention that fact that my dh knows them and does not enjoy their company.

As I said before, find someone with their own little kids; your child will be happier; and find a place where everyone is comfortable. It's maybe easier said than done. That said, we mostly stay home !!!
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Yida_in_Hoboken




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 26 2009, 11:19 am
It is always rude to invite yourself unless there is an emergency and no food is in your house. Saying your son can walk now to shul is fine. Inviting yourself out - is NOT good manner or etiquette. If someone doesn't mind this that is their generousity. But it is so incredibly indecent to invite one-self out!

Example of inviting oneself ruining a friendship: I have someone I once thought was a friend. I invited her over months ago, pulled out all the stops made an incredible meal and at the meal she asked to be invited overPESACH because she, being a princess, didn't "feel like" cookng this year!!! I had a 2 month old baby and a 3 year old who is very demending and needs a lot of attention. I have never felt so hurt by a "friend"s insensitivity. She even went a step further, saying my mother and grandmother will be staying with us can they come too?!!! She is not a nebbach, married with a baby that is older than mine and should understand. Shocking. I said she could come with her husband but we don't have enough room for anyone else because I already had guests coming. She also invited herself over to other's seders (one person being 8 or 9 mos preg at the time)
Then she comes to my house pesach with her nails perfectly manicured, her newly washed & styled shaitel, she went to the gym all week - while I am in a shmata bc I cooked all week for guests and my hands are rubbed raw and bleeding from shredding kugels and my 3 year old and 2 month old baby are crying and I can't give them the attention they need!! She then promises to invite me over for shavuot but has not, she is just a big liar and user, not someone I can be friends with as she is totally unaware of others suffering around her. Mind you that my husband lost his job and just making meals for guests is a struggle financially at this point, esp when the invitation is not returned. She knows all this and when I see her says " I need to invite you over" but never does. I feel used.
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Twoisacharm




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 26 2009, 11:25 am
Yida_in_Hoboken wrote:
It is always rude to invite yourself unless there is an emergency and no food is in your house. Saying your son can walk now to shul is fine. Inviting yourself out - is NOT good manner or etiquette. If someone doesn't mind this that is their generousity. But it is so incredibly indecent to invite one-self out!

Example of inviting oneself ruining a friendship: I have someone I once thought was a friend. I invited her over months ago, pulled out all the stops made an incredible meal and at the meal she asked to be invited overPESACH because she, being a princess, didn't "feel like" cookng this year!!! I had a 2 month old baby and a 3 year old who is very demending and needs a lot of attention. I have never felt so hurt by a "friend"s insensitivity. She even went a step further, saying my mother and grandmother will be staying with us can they come too?!!! She is not a nebbach, married with a baby that is older than mine and should understand. Shocking. I said she could come with her husband but we don't have enough room for anyone else because I already had guests coming. She also invited herself over to other's seders (one person being 8 or 9 mos preg at the time)
Then she comes to my house pesach with her nails perfectly manicured, her newly washed & styled shaitel, she went to the gym all week - while I am in a shmata bc I cooked all week for guests and my hands are rubbed raw and bleeding from shredding kugels and my 3 year old and 2 month old baby are crying and I can't give them the attention they need!! She then promises to invite me over for shavuot but has not, she is just a big liar and user, not someone I can be friends with as she is totally unaware of others suffering around her. Mind you that my husband lost his job and just making meals for guests is a struggle financially at this point, esp when the invitation is not returned. She knows all this and when I see her says " I need to invite you over" but never does. I feel used.


oh this is a situation thats not usual....perhaps you should take her up on her invite for shavout and go there freshly washed and manicured!!!!
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OldYoung




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 26 2009, 12:31 pm
Yida_in_Hoboken wrote:
It is always rude to invite yourself unless there is an emergency and no food is in your house. Saying your son can walk now to shul is fine. Inviting yourself out - is NOT good manner or etiquette. If someone doesn't mind this that is their generousity. But it is so incredibly indecent to invite one-self out!

Example of inviting oneself ruining a friendship: I have someone I once thought was a friend. I invited her over months ago, pulled out all the stops made an incredible meal and at the meal she asked to be invited overPESACH because she, being a princess, didn't "feel like" cookng this year!!! I had a 2 month old baby and a 3 year old who is very demending and needs a lot of attention. I have never felt so hurt by a "friend"s insensitivity. She even went a step further, saying my mother and grandmother will be staying with us can they come too?!!! She is not a nebbach, married with a baby that is older than mine and should understand. Shocking. I said she could come with her husband but we don't have enough room for anyone else because I already had guests coming. She also invited herself over to other's seders (one person being 8 or 9 mos preg at the time)
Then she comes to my house pesach with her nails perfectly manicured, her newly washed & styled shaitel, she went to the gym all week - while I am in a shmata bc I cooked all week for guests and my hands are rubbed raw and bleeding from shredding kugels and my 3 year old and 2 month old baby are crying and I can't give them the attention they need!! She then promises to invite me over for shavuot but has not, she is just a big liar and user, not someone I can be friends with as she is totally unaware of others suffering around her. Mind you that my husband lost his job and just making meals for guests is a struggle financially at this point, esp when the invitation is not returned. She knows all this and when I see her says " I need to invite you over" but never does. I feel used.


I hope that the rest of her life is as perfect as it seems, and that she has no serious family or medical problems that she is worrying about, on top of her new friendship issues.
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chocolate moose




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 26 2009, 12:56 pm
It's still hashnosses orchim to invite her, becasue she needs a break. It might be on your cheshbon, but she's getting a break!

She should have bought/brought food to help you out; like the whole fish and dessert course. that's what I would have done.
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israel22




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 26 2009, 1:58 pm
well by me we don't usually get invited out (I wish!) when we were in shana reshona me and my dh both have so many relatives that we would call them and these ppl always have their kids so there honest with us either way if we can come or not. besides the fact that I wish ppl would invite themselves to me! then imight acutally get company! I wasj ust telling my husband it so the type that our future sil will never call us and with shana reshona we won't to call them as not to "step on their toes..." but I like hosting!!! nu nu I guess ithink it has alot to do with personality!
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louche




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 26 2009, 2:34 pm
I would never invite myself or even hint unless it were a major unforeseeable emergency (e.g. went OOT on business, was snowbound for three days and got back home Friday afternoon with no food in the house) or if I were on a business trip OOT and were stuck there over shabbos.
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israel22




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 26 2009, 2:36 pm
its just the type wiht me b/c my relatvies want us to invite ourselves otherwise we wud never see them b/c e/o is so busy during the wekk
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CuteGirl613




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 26 2009, 5:19 pm
Yida_in_Hoboken
I feel bad for you. There are people in my neighborhood that stay home for Yom Tov and somehow manage to get themselves invited out for all the meals (and not to family).
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Dalia Nechama




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2009, 12:08 am
Yida in Hoboken,

Your experience sounds miserable. It does sound like your "friend" was insensitive, and I certainly understand your feeling used. I do, however, disagree with your comment that

Yida_in_Hoboken wrote:
It is always rude to invite yourself unless there is an emergency and no food is in your house. Saying your son can walk now to shul is fine. Inviting yourself out - is NOT good manner or etiquette. If someone doesn't mind this that is their generousity. But it is so incredibly indecent to invite one-self out!


I have many friends who have told me to let them know when I need a place for Shabbos. I always respond by telling them that I'll call as long as they promise to tell me if it's a bad week. I think that many of us have developed these kinds of relationships over the years. When I am a guest, I do ask my friends what I can bring and bake / cook / shop accordingly.

I guess my point is that inviting oneself out is not inherently rude. It depends on your relationship with the people involved and the culture of your community. There will always be those, like your "friend" who abuse the system and take advantage of others' generosity.
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DREAMING




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2009, 1:00 am
I think it depends on the people - you need to know who you're talking too.
we invite ourselves to our parents. they prefer when we ASK rather than them invite us because they don't want us to feel obligated.
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Blair




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2009, 2:12 am
I don't see anything wrong with it if it's someone you know well and they won't mind. You really have to know the person well enough to be able do it and not mind when they ask you if they can come.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2009, 3:22 am
chocolate moose wrote:
It's still hashnosses orchim to invite her, becasue she needs a break. It might be on your cheshbon, but she's getting a break!



Maybe it's chessed (though what about chessed to your children first?) but it's certainly not hachnasas orchim. BH she has a home and a place to eat.

DaliaNechama - do you have lots of friends who call you up and invite themselves, and you have them over if it's a good week for you? You only mentioned going to people, not having them come to you.
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chocolate moose




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2009, 10:39 am
shalhevet wrote:
Maybe it's chessed (though what about chessed to your children first?) but it's certainly not hachnasas orchim. BH she has a home and a place to eat.


Uh-uh. It IS hachnosses orchim. We had a shiur about this and that's what the rabbi said.
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BZBEE




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 05 2009, 10:48 am
I personally would never invite ourselves out.
To my sister maybe if I really wanted to get out (were very close, and she usually sends most stuff for shabbos anyway)
I remember she once invited us for shabbos lunch and I asked if we could come Fri night since it works out better for us. She told me straight out it doesn't work for her.
I felt really bad.
I actually had my inlaws invite themselves over for a Fri night when I was going to the mikvah.
We tried really hard to tell them that we'll send the food to them, I'm tired...
but they just did not get the point Confused
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ruthla




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2009, 5:20 pm
In the OP's situation, I think I'd let friends know that I'm available to go out for Shabbos meals, but leave it up to THEM to decide if and when to invite us.

I used to "invite myself out" for Shabbos a few times a month I was a single college student, especially after I was engaged. I could have spent Shabbos on campus and gone to the Chabbad House, but I preferred to go to Baltimore so that my DF and I could both eat at the same Shabbos table.

Then he continued doing that after we were married, not realizing it was rude. After DD1 was born I finally put my foot down and told him I wanted to be home for Shabbos meals- it was just too tiring to go out all the time with a baby.
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