Money and Self-Esteem

He*Sings*To*Me

Tue, Dec 27 2005, 6:34 pm

May I make a suggestion: we've a mikvah, a Chabad, an Orthodox shul that is led by a Lubavitcher rabbi, a school, a JCC, and an international airport...we also have fresh air, yard space, and a great cost of living: we live in a 5-bedroom, 3600 square foot house on a quarter acre lot in the "good" part of town ...our monthly mortgage is approx. $1200 a month...relocate here...I'd love to have more frum families here!
I am not from here, either...but the advantages are worth discussing with your husbands! I feel for you ladies living in cramped surroundings, using the laundramat, having to stretch your money so far. I ADMIRE YOU SO MUCH ....and I am being completely serious!
As many of you know, my husband was downsized so money is VERY TIGHT. His unemployment kept living expenses paid, but the house payment was from our savings each month...we could never survive on our savings while he looks for other work if we weren't here...
I'd love to have more frum neighbors...girlfriends, I want you and your families to have more than crowded city life offers.
True, there are no kosher restaurants here, but the Vaad here has an arrangement with a number of caterers, and we have dinners regularly.
I order cholov yisroel dairy items online and am working on finding a regular source to have cholov yisroel milk delivered to the supermarket that has the kosher bakery/butcher here.
It's really beautiful country here, ladies...blue sky, fresh air, green grass...even if we are called "the bluegrass state"...think about it.

zigi

Thu, Jan 05 2006, 1:56 am

he*sings*to*me thank you so much for your offer, I really appriciate it, a few months ago it was really bad situation but thank G-D, it worked out hashem helped!

good luck everyone!!! a brocha for parnossa and peace of mind, hashem definatly helps but untill then its very stressfull. my dh was more laid back it would drive me crazy, he used to say"what are you getting upset about? it will work out. getting upset won't help, hashem will provide" its true but can you at least see why I'm upset? at the point when I gave up and put my controll to hashem everything worked out

amother you are right when one complains about seeming extra things while someone else doesn't even have money for the basics, but they don't want anyone to know what they are going through, its hard to hear, but the person complaining might have been used to having more money and what they are denying them self means a lot to them. I wish that no one would have money problems!

he*sings*to*me wow where do you live? it sounds really nice 1200 a month for a house wow!!!!! thats how much maybe if you are very very lucky you could rent a 3 bedroom apt it would probally be in a bad building, or a really nice 2 bedroom, wow, we are looking to relocate, do you have snow? my dh likes snow. LOL

Wed, Mar 22 2006, 9:52 am

I didnt have money growing up which taught me to save rather then spend whatever money I earned from babysitting, teaching etc

I was fortunate to be in a class of girls where 80% were from families in a similar financial situation to mine so I never felt I was missing out on activites or clothing that everyone else had and BH my self esteem never suffered.

it breaks my heart when I hear of ppl struggling with money so much that they cant even afford to buy the basics.
I know in Israel there are hundreds of families who are going hungry b/c they cant afford food - that is real poverty.

Ok, this maybe a controvercial question, but...
do u think Hashem wants people in such poor, poor situations to remain in Kollel and rely on tzedaka to feed their families?
Im not talking about going to work full-time inorder to buy leather couches, or matching dinner sets etc im talking about a side-job to pay for food, rent and shoes.

I've read stories about great, great tzadikim that had small shops that they wud work in for a few hours a day so they could afford to feed their families and cover the basic expenses of living an then spend the rest of the day learning.
What do u think?

amother

Wed, Mar 22 2006, 11:30 am

It's nice to say that you don't care what ppl think and they should take you for what you are, and it's true that money can't buy self-esteem--but it's also true that lack of money negatively affects social relationships and marriages.

It also depends what type of community you are living in. Every day's mail seems to bring at least 4-5 invitations to annual dinners and parlor meetings, and while they are all worthy tzedakas, I can assure you they are not looking for $50 or $100 donations--ranges of $360 into the $$thousands would be more like it. So what happens if you don't have that kind of money to shell out a few times a week? You are simply not able to be an active social member of your shul or community because everything is based on reciprocity. I speak from experience. I have only a few friends among my neighbors and from shul and even with them the socializing is a little strained because they can afford to do the extra little things that I can't. They know I can't afford extras and they like me for who I am but it still prevents participation in mutually ejoyable activities, and unfortunately we cannot provide an adequate $$ response when organizations honor them. Even if they undertand, it makes me feel bad.

And, no, you cannot look as good in a $50-$75 shabbos suit as you would in a $500 suit, no matter how amazing you are at bargain hunting. You also cannot look as well in an out of the box sheitel that hasn't been washed and blown in several months, as you would in a well cared for custom. This is not to say that everyone must have the best and most expensive clothing or be able to donate extraordinary amounts to tzedaka, but what I'm saying is that it makes you different and that it does affect relationships. And, btw, no matter how healthy your self esteem, it takes a beating when you are always out of the loop.

At the extreme end of the spectrum, when finances are very very limited and paying basic bills and putting food on the table become a struggle, the stress on even a solid marriage is palpable.

A friend of mine, who is always struggling financially (but happens to have a very happy and positive disposition nonetheless) said that when she looks around in shul, no matter how ppl are dressed (because in this community ppl sometimes go into major debt just to put on a nice show) she can always tell who has financial stress and who doesn't. No matter how someone is clothed the burden they carry in their hearts shows on their faces while those who have money as a buffer in life have a much lighter and freer demeanor.

Please, no lectures Rolling Eyes

on why I should be leaving a community that is so drawn to gashmius. I didn't choose this--the community changed around me (although I must say in all fairness, and to their great credit, that in a crunch this community really comes together to support one another, and they readily put their chessed to work not only for the klal, but also for their immediate neighbors, even if you're not part of the inner circle). There were always some very wealthy ppl but now they seem to be everywhere! Also, I moved the kids once already and I don't want to disrupt them again. Maybe when they're married we'll get out. Confused

hisorerus

Wed, Mar 22 2006, 11:39 am

cl wrote:

Ok, this maybe a controvercial question, but...
do u think Hashem wants people in such poor, poor situations to remain in Kollel and rely on tzedaka to feed their families?
Im not talking about going to work full-time inorder to buy leather couches, or matching dinner sets etc im talking about a side-job to pay for food, rent and shoes.

I've read stories about great, great tzadikim that had small shops that they wud work in for a few hours a day so they could afford to feed their families and cover the basic expenses of living an then spend the rest of the day learning.
What do u think?

I don't think that mythical job exists. Sad

I think a person feels that his Torah learning is worth more than minimum wage, and since working part-time is going to accomplish nothing...

Thu, Mar 23 2006, 9:35 am

why is working part-time going to accomplish nothing?
it will at east put a dent in the bills.

In england we have something thats called job-sharing which is mainly designed for mothers who want to work part-time but the company needs a full-time worker, so another person fills in the hours she cant do.

There is no reason why something like this cant work for frum men too.

Or working in a kosher store, or pizza shop etc places that are open long hours normally have 2 shifts so u can learn in the morning an work in the afternoon or vice versa. Or book-keeping at home, or private tutoring... you get the picture.

When theres a will theres a way.

PS. Im not talking about men who r trying 2 find work, or are setting up a business an have not yet succeded 2 make a parnossa, thats up 2 Hashem, but at least theyre providing a 'kay-li'. im talking about men who's family is in dire straits and still spends all day in kollel.