Sending boys away for yeshiva

amother

Wed, Sep 01 2010, 2:50 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I am not against dorming as a general klal, but I do think it's good if possible for that dorm to be within reasonable distance at that age. With parents 20 minutes away, there is less likely for there to be problems not noticed.

My husband and his brothers all dormed at the local yeshiva, but if they needed to come home during the week, needed parents for appointments they were not comfortable attending themselves, etc they had that security net.

In that case, can people who respond differentiate whether they're against dorming at all, or just against dorming out of town?

How would you notice problems? Are you visiting the yeshiva? Yes, it's convenient to be able to go with them to doctor's appointments, but that's not really what I'm asking about. I'm asking why it's viewed as okay for these boys to grow up with essentially no family life, barely ever seeing how a home runs. Dorm life is fun; I did it in seminary. But I had eighteen years (more than that, actually) to be part of a home, part of a family. I can't imagine my boys missing out on that.

shosh

Wed, Sep 01 2010, 3:43 pm

I think it depends on the child.

I have just sent my second ds (who was bar mitzvah this week) to yeshiva ketanah. He's the youngest boy there, but I didn't have any other options unless I was willing to send him to Adolf - and that in my book is worse than anything else.

But ds and I decided to send him to the yeshiva that is the continuation of his Talmud Torah and is only one bus away from home. The rules state that he still has to dorm there, but it's much easier as he's so near home. I think he gets the best of all worlds like this - he has a little brother in the Talmud Torah that he can see whenever he wants and even when he's not coming home for Shabbos he can still come and visit on a Friday.

I think it's a good transition. DS does get homesick sometimes, but he's essentially extremely happy. He loves his roommates and his learning, and he has a lot more fun there than here, where he would constantly complain in the evenings that he was bored.

I think that by living away, these boys learn how to live with others. At the same time, he still has contact with us and I think that on a certain level he will come to appreciate his home more than he did when he was living here all the time.

sugaray

Wed, Sep 01 2010, 3:45 pm

I have only little boys now but have also thought about this a lot. the idea of boys missing out on family life bothers me a lot too. my brothers went to the local yeshiva and lived at home until they went to E"Y for yeshiva for a couple of years. my dh also lived at home until he switched to the dorm in 12th grade (local yeshiva). I would be curious to see a study about this to see if there is a difference in midos, ability to cooperate/participate in household tasks, closeness to siblings and parents, etc between boys who lived at home through their teenage years and boys who didnt. I cant imagine that there is no difference.
that being said, I dont know if any local yeshivos will be appropriate for my kids. I can see compromising on something (maybe) but a boys yeshiva is pretty pivotal when it comes to his growth, learning, connection to a rebbi, etc so I dont know what we will do. who knows? a lot can change between now and then...

Tablepoetry

Wed, Sep 01 2010, 3:48 pm

Everyone I know here in Israel who went to a boarding yeshiva in their teenage years is doing their utmost not to send their kids to one.
The boarding option is far less popular among the dati leumi crowd than it was even a decade ago. I worked in the system, and I can tell you that many boarding schools have eased their rules considerably in order to retain students (letting them out far more often).

Anyway, the whole thing is irrelevant for me as my kids refuse to go to boarding school and there is no way I would force them.

amother

Thu, Sep 02 2010, 2:02 am

Well, I'm in the thick of this as we speak. We just dropped our 13 year old son at a yeshiva hours away. Why?

The local yeshiva does not meet his needs and we have no other local option except a coed day school HS.

We have little girls at home and no other boys and I don't like how the dynamics of teen boy and little girls around the house a lot together was starting to feel. I felt it would be healthier to have our son live at school.

Also we have high hopes that this yeshiva will be a great learning experience for him and inspire him in his yiddishkeit. He's a difficult kid in that way.

All that said, ideally I would not send him away. I agree with everyone who said it's best to have kids at home for many reasons. If I had other sons I think I would have made a different decision - but this is what we are dealing with and at some point you sometimes have to compromise your ideas.

Our solution is just to have him home as much as possible and keep very connected by e-mail, etc. We will do whatever we can.

chanchy123

Thu, Sep 02 2010, 2:26 am

My DH went away and he lOOOOOOVED it. he's still very much in touch with his friends and some of the staff. Whenever he meets a guy who was two classes above him or three classes below him he's like that's my good friend. And it's true, they have a familial bond. That being said, he went to an exclusive yeshiva high school here in Israel. He was about an hour away from his parents. His parents kept in touch with the staff.
He was so happy there and would love to send DS and any future DSs there.
My SIL also dormed and she loved her school and her two DD are currently going to that same school she went to (at least the first one loves it just as much I don't know about the second one she just started).
My sister had to dorm also, in a school that was pretty far away, the first few weeks were very hard for her. But she had no choice (this was the only school that could fully cater to her specific needs) and by the time she graduated she came to love the school and made friends for life. She says this was the most amazing experience that gave her so much.
I've heard people who are very anti sending away, but I know other experiences which are very positive.
I guess it really depends on the school/yeshiva and the child. You can always try and then worse comes to worse take the child out. You need to let him know that there is always an option to come home.
My DH says that for teenage boys a dorming yeshiva is ideal. There are less distractions and temptations and you can dedicate your time to learning.

amother

Thu, Sep 02 2010, 4:33 am

Not everyone can afford to live near a yeshiva. It's not like there are tons of fitting yeshivos everywhere. You also need ajob tosend to yeshiva anyway, so moving stam isn't always possible, even if you could afford to move when working!

As for the sinas chinam, drop it, it's ugly in Eilul. Yes, some rabbanim say that, and DO THAT too. Black hat, and all, not refrom!!

suomynona

Thu, Sep 02 2010, 5:24 am

Both my brothers went to a dorm yeshiva starting in 9th grade because none of the high schools in my home town have secular subjects. My brothers are 15 years apart. When the older one went, it was more common to go to a dorm yeshiva. He went with a lot of his classmates. When the younger one went, almost none of his classmates went out of town, but my father felt very strongly about it. Both of them were absolutely miserable at the beginning but by the end of 9th grade were totally fine. when choosing a yeshiva, it was a priority that the yeshiva allow the boys to come home almost every shabbos in 9th grade.
I'm not saying it would be my first choice, but I really don't feel like my brothers missed out on not living at home. The were home for shabbos often enough and also for bein hazmanim.

amother

Thu, Sep 02 2010, 6:25 am

In the US I could never see a frum Rav recommending public school, unless there was a special case. It's just not done here.

I used to work in a boarding school myself and I think some kids do very well living away from home and some do not. To me, a 13 year old is still very young and I don't think that I personally could send such a young kid away. However, I have seen some kids that really thrive in the boarding environment.

I grew up in Silver Spring,MD and we had a lot kids that went to the Yeshiva and boarded with local families. Again, some thrived and some struggled, however, I think boarding with a host family is better than a dorm because at least you get a family life.

ora_43

Thu, Sep 02 2010, 7:16 am

My dh roomed in at his yeshiva, but he was only about an hour from home. He liked it, he made great friends there, and I'm sure he'd be fine with any of our kids doing the same.

He wasn't really "sent," though, he started out at a different yeshiva without rooming in and chose to switch (not because of the rooming in, because of overall quality of education), so it was his decision.

I don't think there was much difference in the amount of quality time he spent with family and the amount of time his non-boarding siblings spent with family (as teenagers). It's not like they came straight home from school and spent the rest of the day at home interacting with parents and siblings, they spent their afternoons with friends or in youth group, and most evenings in their rooms or watching TV.

ChossidMom

Thu, Sep 02 2010, 7:26 am

From what I understand, here in Israel, in the Charedi community there is a difference between Litvish and Chassidish in terms of this. I think the Litvish mostly send their 13 year olds in town. The Chassidish are the ones that often send their kids to a dorm.

My son is almost 15. This is first year dorming at his Chassidish yeshiva. Last year his class of the Yeshiva was in a place where there was no dorm so the kids had to sleep over at friends and relatives in that city. My son hated it and came home (2 busses) almost every night. He also called me every day that he didn't come home. This year he is in the official Amshinov dorm in Bayit Vegan and he is on cloud nine. He loves it, loves it, loves it. He almost never calls me.
He does come home every Shabbos since they don't have Shabbosim at yeshiva.

So, I don't know what's the best for everyone else but I know that for my zindele, dorming is wonderful!!!

BTW there was very recently an entire article about this in the Hebrew Mishpacha. It'll probably make it to the English one soon.

My husband says that when you wait till yeshiva gedola to send them to dorm, it's even harder for the boys.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Sep 02 2010, 9:24 am

amother wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I meant mitzad the parents, if they are still involved with regular life (doctor's appointments were an example) -- the boy comes home more often than once every X weeks, the parents can see for themselves if the boy isn't happy.

Also, I think what boys and what girls need to see when growing up are different. By the time a boy reaches yeshiva, he SHOULD know how to help out when necessary, but a girl also has more time-management skills to learn in terms of housework vs other responsibilities. Most of these boys will grow up not needing to juggle the same load wives usually do, and there isn't as much a need to see all this on a daily basis.

dilego

Thu, Sep 02 2010, 1:28 pm

I think we shouldnd't compare our kids times and ours where we grew up the boys left home to a yeshiva 1 h away by car and dormed there at 14 yrs old whereas nowadays most boys are not ready for that plus there are so many risks involved that im so pleased that they have the option to stay in town.my oldest even opted to go to a yeshiva gedola in ''town'',not that we see him that often on shabbos he eats in yeshiva,and obvioulsy during the week too.my next one is due to chang e next year but he is adamnent abt going out of town so we'll see be''h what will be

Isramom8

Thu, Sep 02 2010, 2:36 pm

The thing is, here, the boys do not "go away and never see how a home is run and experience family life". They are a bus ride or two away. They are home every third or second or single Shabbos. They are home for all the many vacations. They can sleep at home on Tuesday nights till age 16 or 17. My sons have a close relationship with their sibs and do a lot of cooking/baking. The away part isn't a clear cutting off from the family. so it works. Two of our teenage sons are happy with this arangement. The other one's issues are not specifically related to this.

I don't know, they're just like always coming home, doing their laundry, shopping, palying music, shmoozing with their sibs, creating sinkloads of dishes...